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  1. #1 Would torture be acceptable if it prevented something? 
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    Raven (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-26-09 08:36 AM
    Original message
    Would torture be acceptable if it prevented something? Would it
    Advertisements [?]be OK if it prevented an terrorist attack or provided valuable information about the enemy?

    It seems that Cheney's argument is that torture is an acceptable practice if it saves US from something bad.

    Are there any circumstances which would justify torture? I say NO but I'm not sure where they country is on this.

    And...the lawyers, like Bybee, who wrote a detailed memo outlining which torture methods were OK and how intense they should be...how the hell is he trained to give such advice? He's a lawyer, not a Doctor or a Shrink. How was he even qualified to render advice on this?

    Back to Cheney. He's on a slippery slope but he's a smart, diabolocal guy and he may be leading US into a hair splitting debate that will lead nowhere. The question is whether torture is EVER an acceptable practice, not, as Cheney would prefer, under what circumstances can it be used. If we lose this debate, I fear the country will lose its soul.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com...esg_id=5536949

    OK,typical stupid OP......................but then a few dumbfounded replys leave me speechless:

    HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-26-09 08:51 AM
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    10. Yes
    Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 08:52 AM by HamdenRice
    Only under the most extreme hypothetical situation -- say, preventing a 9/11 attack, where you had to balance the deaths of 3000 people against hurting one person.

    But then the torturer would have to face the consequences of his act and be prosecuted and convicted. If what he did was, ultimately right, then he could be pardoned after being convicted.

    Of course, "preventing attacks" in this case was just an excuse and I am in no way suggesting that Cheney et al are telling the truth when they say their torture prevented anything. The "preventing attack" scenario is just used as a convenient excuse.
    Avalux (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-26-09 09:03 AM
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    17. That hypothetical situation only happens on TV, not in the real world.
    And the torturee wouldn't care if they were tortured and died in order to achieve the greater goal.
    Lets just paint some happy clouds over at the sunshine and lollipop land
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Dan D. Doty's Avatar
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    A better question for the Moonbats listening is this; if a terrorist attacks does happen and you could of gotten the answers beforehand with water boarding, hows are the American people going to react to your inactions?
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  3. #3  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan D. Doty View Post
    A better question for the Moonbats listening is this; if a terrorist attacks does happen and you could of gotten the answers beforehand with water boarding, hows are the American people going to react to your inactions?

    By calling them the chickenshit little traitorous bastids that they are hopefully...
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  4. #4  
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    Avalux (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-26-09 09:03 AM
    Response to Reply #10
    17. That hypothetical situation only happens on TV, not in the real world.
    And the torturee wouldn't care if they were tortured and died in order to achieve the greater goal.
    Yeah... sure. In the AF just about every aircrew or intel job requires surival training. Especially the interrogation resistance part.

    Now I haven't gone through it personally, but I've talked to a lot of people who have. Everyone I've spoken to has told me that they broke during the training. And this was just doing the standard stuff. Sleep deprivation, things like that. No water boarding was involved, no torture, etc...

    Jihad Sammy would not keep his mouth shut if we wanted to make him talk.
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  5. #5  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Yeah... sure. In the AF just about every aircrew or intel job requires surival training. Especially the interrogation resistance part.

    Now I haven't gone through it personally, but I've talked to a lot of people who have. Everyone I've spoken to has told me that they broke during the training. And this was just doing the standard stuff. Sleep deprivation, things like that. No water boarding was involved, no torture, etc...

    Jihad Sammy would not keep his mouth shut if we wanted to make him talk.

    There are always people who can resist torture. They guys you know who underwent the training didn't probably grow up in the kind of places and conditions that the terrorists did. Kids who are exposed to a lot of violence and other really awful things that seem to happen in many muslim-led countries grow up numb to individual pain-it's one of those things that makes them good recruits for terrorist groups.
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  6. #6  
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    Hypothetical to the room............We capture UBL, we have him in a secure, safe location located here in the United States. He sits calmly and tells his "hosts" of a pending attack on the United States of America in which nuclear weapons will be used and it's more than one city, but less than ten cities.........what would you do?
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  7. #7  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaganForRus View Post
    Hypothetical to the room............We capture UBL, we have him in a secure, safe location located here in the United States. He sits calmly and tells his "hosts" of a pending attack on the United States of America in which nuclear weapons will be used and it's more than one city, but less than ten cities.........what would you do?
    I don't think that we'd even wait for him to say that before the jumper cables and car battery had been brought into the room.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReaganForRus View Post
    Hypothetical to the room............We capture UBL, we have him in a secure, safe location located here in the United States. He sits calmly and tells his "hosts" of a pending attack on the United States of America in which nuclear weapons will be used and it's more than one city, but less than ten cities.........what would you do?
    Since he is in the USA, if he was not read his rights before providing the information, it is not admissable and therefore must be thrown out.

    He must then be set free until he is properly mirandized for an alleged crime.

    ....I just sayin'
    Thanks to SarasotaRepub for your help! :D
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    If UBL is captured, I'd be in favor of torturing him just for the hell of it.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  10. #10  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    If UBL is captured, I'd be in favor of torturing him just for the hell of it.
    I say hold a lottery. Think of how much of the deficit the Gov could erase that way.
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