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  1. #11  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    1. Yes, but it is not as strong as it was 10 years ago. The death of Jerry Falwell and the increasingly obvious senility of Pat Robertson have dealt blows to the movement. Also, there are evangelical preachers like Rick Warren, who are distancing themselves from the politcal agenda of the religious right.

    2. Some of it is a fair portrayal and some is not. There are conservatives who support the legalization of marijuana and are opposed to the curbing of civil liberties in the name of the War on Drug Users. I don't think too many people on the religious right support abortion rights, and most call for making it illegal, either for all women, or for all women with exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the mother. Protestant conservatives are not opposed to birth control for the most part, they are opposed to letting teenagers get access to medical methods like the Pill without parental consent. They are generally opposed to schools giving away condoms, but are not calling for stores to ask customers for id before selling them condoms.

    Churches frequently have good reasons for calling for strict enforcement of prostitution laws-this has nothing to do with politics, though. When I lived in Detroit, there were several churches right on Woodward in Highland Park, where there are also a number of adult bookstores and peep shows. These establishments attract prostitutes. The churches put pressure on the city government to enforce the law, and helped organize the neighborhood people into action to stop this from happening, because there are not just churches, but elementary schools and day care programs in visual range.

    I haven't heard too many calls to ban all PDA between gay people from the right. I have heard and read comments expressing disgust about gays kissing or holding hands in public. As long as that's the definition of PDA-nobody wants to see gay or straight people engaging in blatantly sexual acts out in public.

    They're split over the evolution/creationism debate. You can see that here, on this board.

    3. I think that the RR has taken over the GOP to the extent that they can. Reagan formed a coalition between fiscal and religious conservatives that has endured for a while, and still endures in parts of the country. They have the numbers to form a majority block in that party, but not in the nation at large. Has it hurt the GOP? I don't know, the jury's still out. It helped them win some elections, in particular, for Reagan and W. The RR connection probably helps the GOP win local elections and some congressional races.
    On the other hand, I probably would vote for more GOP candidates if the religious right wasn't so influential in the Michigan GOP. The coming 2010 governor's race is a good example. I'd be willing to vote for a moderate republican like David Gorcyca, especially as the dems best potential candidate has said no (Dennis Archer, former Detroit Mayor). But I'm not voting for Hoekstra, even if the dems nominate Fieger. In that scenario, I would be tempted to vote 3rd party. I doubt that the GOP is that interested in my vote, however, and they have no reason to change their opposition to legal abortion and gay marriage to get a few votes at the risk of losing thousands.

    4. There are always people who want to impose one set of values over everybody else, on all sides of the spectrum. When it comes to homosexuality, some people use their religious beliefs not just to claim its immoral behavior, but also to dehumanize those who practice it. A nut-job like that wouldn't care if the civil rights of gays were infringed on to prevent him from having to recognize their humanity, because he would rather define gays by the sex acts they allegedly commit.
    There are people on the left that do the same thing. I would say that the pro gay marriage protestors who were harrassing people on their way to church would qualify in that regard, because they are taking what is basically a legal battle and making it personal. It's the "Approve me or me and my friends will get in your face" mentality. It's not going to win more support for legalizing gay marriage. Perez Hilton's treatment of the Miss USA candidate would also be an example of someone wanting to force another to accept his values.
    I don't think the desire to make everyone follow a set of beliefs and rules is exclusive to the religious right.

    Abortion is different, because the religious right believes that the procedure is murder. They don't see that as an issue of sexual morality, so they do not feel that they are trying to get the government to impose their morality on the populace by trying to get abortion re-criminalized. They see a voiceless victim who needs defending, and liken their fight to abolitionism in the 1800s. I may disagree with their arguments, but I don't think that they view it as taking away someone's rights, the way feminists and liberals like me do, but they see it as protecting the rights of the unborn.

    As far as some of the fears about hate crimes, I'm a liberal, but I understand why they are afraid. There are situations in Canada where pastors have been charged with hate crimes for saying that homosexuality is wrong. Speech should never be considered a hate crime in a legal sense, with sanctions on those who violate the rules. Any law used to punish a pastor who states that homosexuality is wrong could be turned on liberals by conservatives, when they eventually get another president elected. I wouldn't want a conservative government telling me that criticizing fundamentalist christians was a hate crime.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    I don't agree with a lot of their points and a lot of other strong Conservatives and Libertarians don't either. I think we need to remember what Barry Goldwater said about the Religious Right and Homosexuality:

    "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

    "The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."


    Amen.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    I don't agree with a lot of their points and a lot of other strong Conservatives and Libertarians don't either. I think we need to remember what Barry Goldwater said about the Religious Right and Homosexuality:

    "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

    "The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."


    Amen.
    You know, marinejcksn, your posts consistently increase my respect for Goldwater. I barely remember his presidential run in '64. The one thing I do remember is my wonderful grandmother worrying so much that Goldwater was going to take away her social security. LBJ really did a number on him during that campaign.
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Closet View Post
    You know, marinejcksn, your posts consistently increase my respect for Goldwater. I barely remember his presidential run in '64. The one thing I do remember is my wonderful grandmother worrying so much that Goldwater was going to take away her social security. LBJ really did a number on him during that campaign.
    He's my #1 favorite politician of the last 100 years, followed by Reagan and Bob Taft. If you want a great resource into just how real and honest the man was, read "Pure Goldwater" by John Dean and Barry Goldwater Jr. He just makes so much damn sense, even now.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    4. There are always people who want to impose one set of values over everybody else, on all sides of the spectrum. When it comes to homosexuality, some people use their religious beliefs not just to claim its immoral behavior, but also to dehumanize those who practice it. A nut-job like that wouldn't care if the civil rights of gays were infringed on to prevent him from having to recognize their humanity, because he would rather define gays by the sex acts they allegedly commit.
    There are people on the left that do the same thing. I would say that the pro gay marriage protestors who were harrassing people on their way to church would qualify in that regard, because they are taking what is basically a legal battle and making it personal. It's the "Approve me or me and my friends will get in your face" mentality. It's not going to win more support for legalizing gay marriage. Perez Hilton's treatment of the Miss USA candidate would also be an example of someone wanting to force another to accept his values.
    I don't think the desire to make everyone follow a set of beliefs and rules is exclusive to the religious right.
    I agree with your point about those who would force others to live/think a certain way. However, your example of the gay rights people harassing people on their way to church--wrong, yes, but I see them doing that in support of the one set of values that should trump all. The Constitution and Bill of Rights.

    IMO--the gay rights movement, like the civil rights movement--is not about Dems or liberals trying to force the rest of us to be tolerant of everyone and everything--its about a Republic working the way it should--seeing that the tyranny of the majority does not trample the rights of the minority.

    Of course, for those who still believe sexual orientation is a choice, then this may be a difficult concept to grasp. Despite people's personal beliefs on this, the legal system now sees Gays as a special type of minority called a "subject class". This is one of several legal concepts involved in the Prop 8 issue in CA.--I digress...

    Anyway, great points--I just disagree with one of your examples.
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  6. #16  
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    Since when did being gay become equal to the color of one's skin? Sexual choice is not the same as being born with different colored skin. Homosexuality is a choice that they decide to persue for their own pleasure. Homosexuality is deviant behavior. If somebody wants to be gay. They can be gay but quit trying to make ME feel bad because of a choice THEY make.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfor View Post
    Since when did being gay become equal to the color of one's skin? Sexual choice is not the same as being born with different colored skin. Homosexuality is a choice that they decide to persue for their own pleasure. Homosexuality is deviant behavior. If somebody wants to be gay. They can be gay but quit trying to make ME feel bad because of a choice THEY make.
    Did you make a conscious choice to be straight, or did you just discover you were attracted to the opposite sex?
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  8. #18  
    We're talking about the OP's questions concerning the religious right as they relate to specific issues in the OP. While homosexuality and gay marriage are a small part of much larger questions, let's not get sidetracked into an entertaining but irrelevant discussion of gayness. ;)
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Did you make a conscious choice to be straight, or did you just discover you were attracted to the opposite sex?
    Never had to. It is natural for male species to be attracted to the females of their species. It is unnatural for males of a species to be sexually attracted to other males of the same species. Same story for female members of a species.

    You can sit there and try to force YOUR opinion of homosexuality is right on me all day long but it won't work. It has only been within the last 10+ years that homosexuality has been tolerable here.
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  10. #20  
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    You don't get what I was saying. You didn't make a choice to be attracted to certain people; they don't either.

    I don't intend to "force" anything on you; just be aware that history and society are moving away from you on this.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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