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  1. #1 Is it me or is this just way off base? 
    Member VWkid06's Avatar
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    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ljah-them.html

    It's time to reclaim conservatism from Coulter and O'Reilly and Limbaugh and Hannity. Reihan:

    Conservatives don't need higher volume. Conservatism at its best is a tough and demanding creed. To sell it, you can't call people who've lost their jobs and their homes "losers." You need to sell the virtues of a growing and flourishing economy and the free-market policies that will make it happen. Because conservatives aren't a majority, hard-edged accusations of socialism wind up alienating millions of potential allies -- voters who are a little uncomfortable with Obama's spending, particularly if it threatens to saddle their children with debt, but who recognize that the government needs to act to stave off an economic collapse.

    Take yours truly. I'm not a Democrat and if pushed, I'd have to say right now I'm a libertarian independent. I'm uneasy about Obama's long-term debt, to say the least, but I'm intelligent enough to know it's not Obama's as such, but mainly Bush's, and I'm also cognizant that the time to cut back may not be in the middle (or beginning) of a brutal depression. On most issues, I side with what used to be the center-right, but the GOP is poison to me and many others. Why?

    Their abandonment of limited government, their absurd spending under Bush, their contempt for civil liberties, their rigid mindset, their hostility to others, their worship of the executive branch, their contempt for judicial checks, their cluelessness with racial minorities and immigrants, their endorsement of torture as an American value, their homophobia, their know-nothing Christianism, and the sheer vileness of their leaders - from the dumb-as-a-post Steele to the brittle, money-grubbing cynic, Coulter and hollow, partisan neo-fascist Hannity.
    Now i agree with the beginning opf paragraph #3 about abandoning smaller gov't and what not. but sean hannity a neo fascist? endorsing torture? know nothing christianism? libertarian independent my ass.
    "People should not fear their governments; governments should fear their people."
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  2. #2  
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    I can think of one or two posters here who might have written that word for word.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I can think of one or two posters here who might have written that word for word.
    Me thinks the poseur is a liar and a hack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I can think of one or two posters here who might have written that word for word.
    You rang? :D

    Seriously, Sullivan frames in a very negative way the same issue that Bush, Romney, and Cantor are putting a positive spin on and being discussed here. Taxes and the economy, smaller government, less government intervention are the winning issues, not social issues.

    The demographics are killing the Republicans right now. The only age group solidly in the Republican camp are the Over 65s! :eek:
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by VWkid06 View Post
    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ljah-them.html

    Now i agree with the beginning opf paragraph #3 about abandoning smaller gov't and what not. but sean hannity a neo fascist? endorsing torture? know nothing christianism? libertarian independent my ass.
    Consider the source. Sullivan is no real friend to conservatives and isn't one himself on most issues. Heck! He doesn't even play one on TV these days. ;)
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  6. #6  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Andrew Sullivan is frequently the sole conservative panelist on Bill Maher's show. He's not a social conservative, and he's not an evangelical christian. He's gay, which is probably a good part of why he doesn't like the evangelical influence over the GOP.


    He has a point about conservative commentators like Rush, Coulter and Hannity-they are not going to win people over to the cause, they are for preaching to the choir. The average, non-political american may not be comfortable with the level of debt being created, but they also don't like things like Hannity's end of the world mentality or Coulter's insulting prose and speech.

    I don't lump O'Reilly in with the other three for a reason-he's a showman, and he is more of a conservative-leaning commentator than an all-out conservative one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Closet View Post
    You rang? :D

    Seriously, Sullivan frames in a very negative way the same issue that Bush, Romney, and Cantor are putting a positive spin on and being discussed here. Taxes and the economy, smaller government, less government intervention are the winning issues, not social issues.

    The demographics are killing the Republicans right now. The only age group solidly in the Republican camp are the Over 65s! :eek:
    I consider Bush, Romney and Cantor RINO's. We went down that road with McCain and got our ass kicked. Although fiscal issues are more important to the average Joe, it is my opinion that social issues are also important. I don't want a fire breathing religious fanatic but I sure as hell do not want someone that has little moral fiber who is for legalizing drugs and prostitution along with allowing open borders. Would have a difficult time voting for either extreme candidate.

    You are not too far from that 60 year old mark old man.:) The Repub party's popularity will increase not because what they are doing but what Obama is going to do to screw things up. Mid term elections will be telling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Andrew Sullivan is frequently the sole conservative panelist on Bill Maher's show. He's not a social conservative, and he's not an evangelical christian. He's gay, which is probably a good part of why he doesn't like the evangelical influence over the GOP.


    He has a point about conservative commentators like Rush, Coulter and Hannity-they are not going to win people over to the cause, they are for preaching to the choir. The average, non-political american may not be comfortable with the level of debt being created, but they also don't like things like Hannity's end of the world mentality or Coulter's insulting prose and speech.
    Well, I would disagree, in that piss-ants like Rush, Hannity and Coulter do fire up a certain demographic, and even win people over.. people that generally makes social issues the number one priority. The mentality is that social issues are the foundation from where all good things (or bad) flow... and if they can just manage to get those social problems handled their way, everything else will fix itself

    The aftermath is that we have a whole gaggle of militant "social conservatives" giving aid, comfort and encouragement to economically liberal "republican" politicians, like Bush, who simply give them enough bones on social issues to make them accept and sometimes even defend socialist policies so long as they come from a republican.

    The message is clear... opposing stem cell research, abortion and gay marriage is enough. Anything else goes.
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  9. #9  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Well, I would disagree, in that piss-ants like Rush, Hannity and Coulter do fire up a certain demographic, and even win people over.. people that generally makes social issues the number one priority. The mentality is that social issues are the foundation from where all good things (or bad) flow... and if they can just manage to get those social problems handled their way, everything else will fix itself

    The aftermath is that we have a whole gaggle of militant "social conservatives" giving aid, comfort and encouragement to economically liberal "republican" politicians, like Bush, who simply give them enough bones on social issues to make them accept and sometimes even defend socialist policies so long as they come from a republican.

    The message is clear... opposing stem cell research, abortion and gay marriage is enough. Anything else goes.
    Embryonic stem cell research. Get your facts straight!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post

    The message is clear... opposing stem cell research, abortion and gay marriage is enough. Anything else goes.

    Opposing FEDERALLY funded embyronic stem cell research is what conservatives are against. I.E. government funded. Private companies are able to use their own money if they so choose.

    Abortion is just plain wrong. Do I believe it is the feds responsibility to tell everyone else whether it is right or wrong? No I don't. It is a states rights issue.

    Gay marriage. Again, I believe it is wrong but again believe that it is a states rights issue.
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