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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Why do people insist on feeling superior just because they pushed out a baby?? Some people like to think that if you didn't fulfill the biological destiny THEY ascribe to you, you have failed in some way. Why is it selfish not to have children? That's a serious question.
    And I would answer it, but I'm working at staying around at least another week. :D
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Closet View Post
    And I would answer it, but I'm working at staying around at least another week. :D
    As you know, this has come up before, and people seem to be actively indignant that I made more use of my brain than my uterus. Why the hell would they care?
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  3. #23  
    Resident Unliked Meanie Shannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Why do people insist on feeling superior just because they pushed out a baby?? Some people like to think that if you didn't fulfill the biological destiny THEY ascribe to you, you have failed in some way. Why is it selfish not to have children? That's a serious question.
    I've often wondered this myself. I don't care if someone has 0 kids or 16 kids. It's not my problem. (well, as long as they can take care of the brats). I was never considered a "real" mom to the other pre school moms because I only had one!
    Loyalty Binds Me- Motto of Richard III
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
    I've often wondered this myself. I don't care if someone has 0 kids or 16 kids. It's not my problem. (well, as long as they can take care of the brats). I was never considered a "real" mom to the other pre school moms because I only had one!
    I do notice that when these judgments are made, it's usually by men.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member stsinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I guess I'm voluntarily childless, mainly because I'm not married and I would never bring a child of my own into the world without being married to the father. I never thought that that attitude indicated a decline of morals, I always thought I was holding to a higher moral standard.

    I'm not bitter toward families, I just get sick of having to cover for the mom coworkers constantly. I have one coworker who will even bring her child in if she can't find day care, and expect one of us to watch the kid while she does her work.

    My mom worked when I was a kid, part time, as a nurse. My dad made good enough money that she didn't have to, and they fought about it a lot. She used to tell him "I didn't go to nursing school so that I could stay at home while the kids are in school all day.". I could see her point. Her mistake was in not hiring a babysitter to watch us, and letting us be at home alone all day when my older brother was 10. She wasn't wrong to get a job, which she was educated to do and which she enjoyed.
    I agree with most of what you said, and I commend you for having the morals and ethical stance that you don't want to bring ant bastards into the world.. So few people even consider that fact these days and, again, I'd attribute this to the secular shift of society and kicking God out of the mainstream. It's so important for children to have both parents in the home.

    As for your mother working, once the kids start school it's a whole different story. There really isn't a valid reason to argue that a mother shouldn't work at that point because our kids are off at the liberal indoctrination centers, anyway.

    But I don't think that it's asking too much to make a valiant effort to be a SAHM through age 5 until kids start first grade in order to nurture a strong bond, even if it means sacrificing things like downsizing your fancy car or moving into a cheaper home so that you can pay the bills with one income. And before it's asked, yes, we did both of those things for your baby-downsized both cars and sold a pop-up camper, as well as moving into a cheaper home so that we didn't have to work the long hours we were and had time for our family.
    Obama-if you're being run out of town, get out in front and pretend that it's a parade!!!
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by stsinner View Post
    But I don't think that it's asking too much to make a valiant effort to be a SAHM through age 5
    As long as you realize you can't ask it of anyone outside your own home. :)
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  7. #27  
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    I can definitely attest to the irritation of women I've worked with in the Marine Corps who've had several children in a short time period. We had one female who had 3 kids in 3 years, she pretty much was out of pocket her whole enlistment. It definitely hurt the people around her because she couldn't deploy which meant someone else had to. Not to mention she was still getting promoted over her peers who struggled trying to get high physical fitness scores while she was 20-30 pounds overweight because they're given a long time to lose the baby weight and can't be forced to do the PFT while pregnant so I know that pissed off a lot of her coworkers.

    I dunno. Sometimes its a real pain in the ass when your coworkers are constantly leaving because they're on maternity leave (or their wife is pregnant, guys get leave too) or they have to pick up their kids and you get stuck picking up their slack.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member cat714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    I think that more and more people are looking at all these 'special cases' and deciding that they aren't so special after all. With less focus on family and less community cohesiveness, who's to say that my time spent fishing or throwing a ball for the Collie is worth less than your time spent watching a Little League game?

    Quote Originally Posted by stsinner View Post
    I disagree.
    Why do you disagree? A working parent being able to take time off to watch their child's little league game brings personal satisfaction to them. This feeling is no different than a childless employee wanting to take some time off to go fishing or do something for themselves. Just because someone has kids, doesn't make them more special than a person who doesn't. We can all use some extra time off.
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  9. #29  
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    Ah, another unintended consequence of changing family structures. I'm not advocating a return to this, but it should be understood that at one time, it was accepted that a married male employee was the primary breadwinner for a family and that married women were suspect if they worked before their children were old enough to do without them. By the same token, single women were assumed to be temporary, in that they would leave after getting married, or at least after they had children once married, but that single men would become more stable and responsible with marriage and children. Thus, the priority for hiring in corporate America was married men for responsible positions, single women for temporary ones, and single men on the assumption that they'd eventually become good husbands and fathers. Married older women were rarely hired, and when they were, it was usually for administrative or senior secretarial positions. The army had a similar policy, in that officers were expected to be married by the time that they were company commanders, enlisted Soldiers were expected to be single until they reached a rank that would support a family and as a result, the army could maintain an expeditionary standing. This changed during WWII, with the influx of married draftees.

    What changed everything was changes to marriage laws. Divorced or single moms needed to be able to support themselves and their children, while divorced men found that they had more time to spend on work, so liberalized divorce laws created an unintended consequence of changing the dynamics of the workplace (divorced men became more productive, single women became more desirable as employees, especially younger and more attractive women, who found that divorced men made great trophy husbands). Meanwhile, changes to the tax code and economic downturns during the 70s and women's liberation combined to create the necessity for dual-income families in urban areas. In short, what seemed like minor social changes created massive economic changes. Anyone still think that same-sex marriage, polygamy or any other alternatives won't have any effects?
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Why do people insist on feeling superior just because they pushed out a baby??
    "I call it pumping out a unit."-George Carlin:D
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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