Thread: My Thoughts – The ‘Gates” Affair
SonnabendGuest07-24-2009, 10:44 PMThe police finally figured out that this middle aged, walking with a cane, 155 pound, unarmed man really was the owner
07-24-2009, 10:50 PM
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
As a former LEO, I treated everyone I came in contact with as a potential threat. It kept me safe and let me make it home every morning. Every traffic stop I treated as if the people in the car were potential threats. Were they? 99% of the time they weren't. I treated every person like treated me. If they treated me like shit, they got it back with a nice sir or ma'am. 99.9% of the traffic tickets I wrote started out as a warning and the person's attitude decided if they got a ticket or not.
That being said, I will take the officer's side of the story first before all the facts come out. In this case, the officer was right.
SonnabendGuest07-24-2009, 10:53 PM
Dunno about the US but here? Abusing a cop gets you arrested.
As it should be.
07-24-2009, 10:53 PM
The police take a lot of abuse. I'm sure they weren't thrilled when they were trying to help the professor and were subjected to the racially charged torrent of accusations.
BTW, MM and I have tangled in the past, but have always respected him as he's a thoughtful person who doesn't revert to the name-calling. We might not agree all the time, but we've had good discussions.
Now this is a person with which to hone your debate skills. He comes highly recommended. :D
07-24-2009, 10:59 PM
Soooo, the reporters took pics of police cars, made a big deal out of it. Now they are whining that, surprise, surprise, the cops have issued probably 20 times the tickets on the reporters' cars than normal.
The station is saying that they must park wherever they can to get the story.
How is that different than cops parking where they need to do their job?
07-24-2009, 11:09 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
I have got a feeling that this negro has an attitude against whites, cops and is a racist.
07-24-2009, 11:35 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Minneapolis MN
Police officers jobs are hard enough that they don't need my punk ass giving them any trouble if they pull me over. It's probably because of me being polite, not arguing, and in some cases owning up to my mistakes that has me ticketless in my 20 plus years of driving. *knocks on wood*. That and I obey the traffic laws :DLiberals are proof that evolution is only a theory. Nothing that stupid could evolve past a monkey.
07-24-2009, 11:38 PM
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
To the OP:
I think the OP is onto something. Up to the point of the confrontation (whatever it was) between Gates and Crowley, no one was doing anything legally wrong.
*Gates was trying to get into his house. (The wisdom of breaking in as opposed to calling a locksmith is a debatable point, but as someone who has broken into my own house in the past, through a basement window that was always a little loose, I can't really talk.)
*The woman, who, like most of us in the US, didn't know her neighbors very well, saw what she thought was a robbery and called the police. We should all have such attentive neighbors when we are away. We should also get to know our neighbors better.
*The police came out, checked out the situation and asked for identification. This was their job.
So far so good.
I think the OP is correct in that there was a battle for supremacy and control. Academics are used to pontificating and talking down to their "non-peers"--this includes graduate students, staff, university security, part time or non-tenured professors, and anyone else they can bully. I've seen it in action. Some cops are ALSO this way: they subtley threaten a normal person in the way they act, talk, and by the very fact that they are carrying a gun and have the power to arrest you. When an academic meets a cop, there can be a major power struggle, especially if, as is common in academia, the academic type hates/distrusts the police for whatever reason OR if the cop, as is common among cops, hates being challenged in any way.
However, no matter what happened between the two, I find myself agreeing with Larry Elder, who was on the Sean Hannity radio show today. Elder talked to some of his cop friends and, to a person, they said that Crowley let Gates get under his skin. They said that the arrest was unnecessary. Elder stated, as I believe, that once the proper ID was shown, Crowley should have left the house: mission accomplished. I have said this before on this board: once the ID was verified the cop should have left.
I say this because this very situation happened to my dad once when I was a kid. We went away for a month long vacation and my dad asked the local police to watch the house, which they did. One night, my dad had to travel back (about an hour and a half drive from the vacation town) for a work related thing that he couldn't get out of. After working, my dad did not feel awake enough to drive back to the vacation town (where we all were) and drove home instead. As soon as he entered the house, a police car drove up behind him. The cop got out and demanded my dad's ID. Instead of getting ticked off, my dad, realizing the cops were doing their job, showed the cop all his IDs and thanked the cop for watching his house so well. The whole thing went well, although I remember being a little scared (at age 8) that the cop had gone after my dad!
The key to the peaceful exchange was the fact that my dad showed ID promptly, explained what he was doing there, and thanked the cop for being so attentive.
Of course, my dad is not black and there is not the long history oppression by the police. But my dad was polite, deferential, and, in the end, it was a pleasant interchange. I imagine that had my dad insulted the cop or claimed that he was being harassed and demanded his badge number, things might not have gone so pleasantly. Encounters with the police are scary ON BOTH SIDES: cops get scared, too, because they could lose their lives in any problematic confrontation. This fear allows the civilian to get under the cop's skin.
How did Gates get under Crowley's skin? For one thing, Gates called him a racist and accused him of oppressing a black man. Now, Crowley was the racial sensitivity guy for his department. When you're someone who is really trying to be a good guy and racially aware, being called a racist hurts and can make you very angry. It's an unfair charge. Secondly, Gates apparently let loose about Crowley's mother (God only knows what was said!) and I can see that also being a trigger.
Of course, Crowley got under Gates' skin as well, especially when he refused to give his name and badge number. Gates jumped to the conclusion that Crowley was going to be abusive and then leave without a trace. That actually happens to some poor blacks in the inner city with abusive cops. Why Gates thought that would happen to him is the product of both his victim-based research and the actual experiences of the less well heeled. He, however, has resources beyond the average person, white or black. He is friends with the current President, among other important people. He was in no real danger of having to serve time because of his contacts. In fact, when he got to the police station, the police let him out of his cell and let him talk to his friends for a long time. What other arrested person gets that?
Anyhow, I agree with the OP and with Larry Elder. No matter what, the message is that yelling at a cop on the job is not a good idea.
07-24-2009, 11:49 PM
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Wrong... Gates continued his verbal assault on the Sgt Crowley. The officer followed the dpet's policy. He wanted Gates out of the house to make sure that he(Gates) was not there against his will. When Gates went outside and continued his verbal assault, that is when disorderly conduct was slapped on him. If Gates had kept his mouth shut then there would have been no issue, there would have been no arrest, there would have been no news story.
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