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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post


    My position on God is not 'faith based'.... but its good to know your position on AGW is :D

    But either way, your post is a fallacy of relevance (as are some others here).
    Sure it is. The point is in dispute. Since the point it in dispute and you can't bring the the evidence to the table to win the argument then you are operating on the belief that you are correct and that is called faith.
    Cast your burden on the Lord,
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    Psalm 55:22
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    You never answered Constitutionally Speaking after he pointed out to you that Jefferson's downplaying of Christian beliefs can late in his life after he experienced much tragedy. You even changed him to the dome and as far as I am aware you never showed up.

    As for your answering of contradictory point of views, you do this but often with no supporting evidence. You have done this to me serveral times. When asked for supporting evidence you recite your own subjective views. Can you point out a instance when you came to the conclusion that you were wrong about something? I'm not talking a little admission here or there to some fine point or another. I don't recall you ever stating that your opinion of anything has changed.
    Maybe we should put him on the ignore list also. These dumb ass liberals like to sling poo to see if it sticks and then run off and hide when they get their ass kicked. Then they start up another thread or change the subject.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Sure it is. The point is in dispute. Since the point it in dispute and you can't bring the the evidence to the table to win the argument then you are operating on the belief that you are correct and that is called faith.
    Well that definition of faith certainly undermines any positive qualities you and others generally like to claim it has.... I'll bookmark this post, for the next time someone claims faith is a good thing :)

    But if you notice, most of my comments on global warming now, are focused on the fallacious arguments and bad reasonings that fuel almost all the denialism around here. You'd have to look extremely hard for a single post that even presents a logically valid point against global warming, much less a factually correct, sound argument.

    Instead, denialism is fueled by little more than arguments like this: "They grew grapes in Northern Europe in Medieval times, therefore AGW is false", "My menial knowledge of statistics is superior and more credible than the whole body of climate scientists that accept global warming and acknowledge the hockey-stick graph, therefore AGW is false", "It was colder than usual, yesterday, therefore AGW is false", "I don't like democrats or Al Gore, therefore AGW is false", etc etc.

    The point in posting that report was more to watch the flurry of immediate rejections, and excuse making that would follow... and it has. One can't even begin to address the facts of the science, when there is such a huge gaping epistemilogical wall that even prevents those facts from being considered in the first place.
    Last edited by wilbur; 07-31-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    You never answered Constitutionally Speaking after he pointed out to you that Jefferson's downplaying of Christian beliefs can late in his life after he experienced much tragedy. You even changed him to the dome and as far as I am aware you never showed up.

    As for your answering of contradictory point of views, you do this but often with no supporting evidence. You have done this to me serveral times. When asked for supporting evidence you recite your own subjective views. Can you point out a instance when you came to the conclusion that you were wrong about something? I'm not talking a little admission here or there to some fine point or another. I don't recall you ever stating that your opinion of anything has changed.

    I'm sure I have but... I generally try very hard say things in terms that are less than certain when I know they arent, or when I don't feel confident that I should, like I did in the thread about the Muslim Principal.
    Last edited by wilbur; 07-31-2009 at 05:39 PM.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    I'm sure I have but... I generally try very hard say things in terms that are less than certain when I know they arent, or when I don't feel confident that I should, like I did in the thread about the Muslim Principal.
    I answered your question (post # 17). What say YOU.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Well that definition of faith certainly undermines any positive qualities you and others generally like to claim it has.... I'll bookmark this post, for the next time someone claims faith is a good thing :)

    But if you notice, most of my comments on global warming now, are focused on the fallacious arguments and bad reasonings that fuel almost all the denialism around here. You'd have to look extremely hard for a single post that even presents a logically valid point against global warming, much less a factually correct, sound argument.

    Instead, denialism is fueled by little more than arguments like this: "They grew grapes in Northern Europe in Medieval times, therefore AGW is false", "My menial knowledge of statistics is superior and more credible than the whole body of climate scientists that accept global warming and acknowledge the hockey-stick graph, therefore AGW is false", "It was colder than usual, yesterday, therefore AGW is false", "I don't like democrats or Al Gore, therefore AGW is false", etc etc.

    The point in posting that report was more to watch the flurry of immediate rejections, and excuse making that would follow... and it has. One can't even begin to address the facts of the science, when there is such a huge gaping epistemilogical wall that even prevents those facts from being considered in the first place.
    You're welcome to book mark anything you like. I'm sure that most, if not all will, agree with me on my statement of faith. It undermines nothing and accept some misconceived notion you have concerning people of faith. My statement makes plain the obvious. There are clues all around us of the existence of God but they are clues and not proof. The proof that I have but you can't accept is the change He brought over me and the interaction He has with those who believe. Because you are outside looking in these events would not constitute proof to you either. But for those who believe it is all the proof we need.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
    Corinthians 1:18
    That doesn't change the fact that your belief in the lack of a deity is just that, a belief and beliefs that are held when their is no irrefutable evidence are based on faith. Lets face it, your version of atheism takes more faith than my belief in God. Unfortunately you can't see it and most everyone else can. Your whole world view is based on your faith in a non-existent God. To possibly believe otherwise brings your world view crashing down around you.

    As for assertions about global warming, myself and others have quoted reputable sources including many climatologists who no longer accept global warming as a reality. You put forth evidence that can be shown to have a basis in those who have a personal or financial state in the reality of global warming but you disregard evidence against man-made global warming by citing the person or financial state that those opposing man made global warming. In that lies the whole problem with your argument. You can't accept the possibility that you evidence is not as objective as you think it is while at the same time using bias as the reason to doubt opposing evidence. The implication is that your side of the issue is more trustworthy than my side yet you can not prove this. What you don't wish to see is that if one side is guilty then both sides are probably guilty and you can't even trust your own source. The best that you can actually say is that you just don't know.
    Cast your burden on the Lord,
    and he will sustain you;
    he will never permit
    the righteous to be moved.
    Psalm 55:22
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    I'm sure I have but... I generally try very hard say things in terms that are less than certain when I know they arent, or when I don't feel confident that I should, like I did in the thread about the Muslim Principal.
    I have watched very closely and to my knowledge you have never admitted that you were wrong about anything but that is a point that probably matters little in the grand scheme of things.
    Cast your burden on the Lord,
    and he will sustain you;
    he will never permit
    the righteous to be moved.
    Psalm 55:22
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    That doesn't change the fact that your belief in the lack of a deity is just that, a belief and beliefs that are held when their is no irrefutable evidence are based on faith. Lets face it, your version of atheism takes more faith than my belief in God. Unfortunately you can't see it and most everyone else can. Your whole world view is based on your faith in a non-existent God. To possibly believe otherwise brings your world view crashing down around you.
    How many times have I tried to explain my view to you, yet you still carry on with this delusional misrepresentation? My confidence in you as a thinker, or person even capable of basic reading comprehension has been severely undermined, as of late. I'll try to explain, one more time... if you can't get it after this, I won't waste any more words trying.

    You repeatedly claim that I make a positive claim that there is no God. I don't. Nor is my worldview based on such a position. Part of the foundation of any worldview are epistemic principles that govern what we do and do not accept as true beliefs. Theories of gods simply have not met the standards that my worldview requires before a belief is accepted as true, or likely to be true. As since god theories have not met this burden of proof, I lack a belief in God. But I do acknowledge the possibility that some piece of evidence might turn up that could make some god theory meet that standard - though, I concede that I don't think it likely.

    How this meets any definition of 'faith', I do not know. My suspicion is that you are so in love with the 'atheism is faith!' canard, that no amount of explanation will make you re-think it.

    I fully accept that it is a basic fact of reality, that one has to make decisions on incomplete information, while hoping for the best... and if you want to call that faith, than fine, on those terms I have ''faith"... but that's not the gotcha that you want it to be, and you know it. And also realize this; in my worldview, that sort of thing is something to be minimized or eliminated, where-ever possible... not something to praise or encourage.

    Anyways, its Friday night.. done for the night, the rest will have to wait.
    Last edited by wilbur; 07-31-2009 at 07:59 PM.
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  9. #29  
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    You never responded to my question. What do you say about this? Is it false?


    http://www.conservativeunderground.c...t=16887&page=4
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  10. #30  
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    taps fingers on desk
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