View Poll Results: Do You Believe In Life After Death?

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  • Yes, my religon is clear on this.

    32 56.14%
  • Yes, but not for everyone.

    2 3.51%
  • Yes, but I'm hazy on the details.

    7 12.28%
  • I have no idea.

    6 10.53%
  • Sort of, it's probably some kind of reincarnation.

    4 7.02%
  • No, we just die.

    6 10.53%
  • The Jooooos!

    0 0%
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  1. #91  
    Sonnabend
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    Untrue. Well, the stuff about being banned from many boards
    I know of at least three.
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  2. #92  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Clearly, your presence here demonstrates that there is a hell. :p
    LOL!!!!!!

    :D
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  3. #93  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    Of course, if the world was as full of life as can be supposed...with nothing dying until after Adam blew it, then there were millions, billions of animals that were killed. But only those buried quickly under pressure became fossils. Isn't it strange that so many, many fossils have been found when it you consider how unlikely it is that any given creature will actually fossilize instead of rot?
    When you consider how much life has lived and died on this planet, and the age of the earth and the amount of time life has existed (billions of years), not at all.

    Even in the fossil record there are far too many organisms for the planet to ever support at the same time. Also consider that even with your hypothesis, still not all or even the majority of animals would have been fossilized. You'd have to have a several feet or more worth of plant life and micro organisms covering the entire ocean, and even more on land.

    Flood theory fails here even without touching on its many other problems, such as where the water came from and where it went, and the associated physics issues that would raise. Or the fact that is surely a strange 'coincidence' that organisms are arranged in the strata in the configuration evolution would predict based on a nested hierarchy... don't even have to go there either.. the theory is already wrong on its face. We don't even have to address the fact that a flood, no matter how big cannot create the strata as we observe it before you realize how wrong it is.

    No matter which way you look at it, there is little else that exists, that is such a pristine and pure example of total and complete wrongness. The essence of "wrong" is global flood theory... its even more wrong than a code pink protester.
    Last edited by wilbur; 07-14-2008 at 08:02 PM.
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  4. #94  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    When you consider how much life has lived and died on this planet, and the age of the earth and the amount of time life has existed (billions of years), not at all.

    Even in the fossil record there are far too many organisms for the planet to ever support at the same time. Also consider that even with your hypothesis, still not all or even the majority of animals would have been fossilized. You'd have to have a several feet or more worth of plant life and micro organisms covering the entire ocean, and even more on land.

    Flood theory fails here even without touching on its many other problems, such as where the water came from and where it went, and the associated physics issues that would raise. Or the fact that is surely a strange 'coincidence' that organisms are arranged in the strata in the configuration evolution would predict based on a nested hierarchy... don't even have to go there either.. the theory is already wrong on its face. We don't even have to address the fact that a flood, no matter how big cannot create the strata as we observe it before you realize how wrong it is.

    No matter which way you look at it, there is little else that exists, that is such a pristine and pure example of total and complete wrongness. The essence of "wrong" is global flood theory... its even more wrong than a code pink protester.
    As no living human has ever seen the kind of flooding and devastation described in Genesis, I fail to see how you can be sure of the impossibility. Given an accurate description of events, the flood could most certainly account for not only the fossils, but the strata, also. There is a simple experiment outlined in one of my kid's science books...take dirt and sand from several different sources and put them in a jar, all mixed up. Pour in water to cover, let sit a day, then shake. Let sit another day, and you'll see the various strata have developed. Given an earth-wide flood lasting nearly a year, with hugely catastrophic results documented by the missing rivers, the radically short life spans, etc., the strata would have certainly formed as things settled.
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    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  5. #95  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Not really. If an animal dies at the edge of a lake and slides down the bank to deep water - where thereís less oxygen, then itís not so far fetched. Same thing in a fast moving stream - with rocks and debris rolling over and covering its body - and all access for air cut off by sand and silt. Not too far fetched at all.

    And the sites where hundreds, thousands of animals are all buried together?
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    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  6. #96  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I've never come across any scientific claims that all the continents were underwater either at different times or at the same time.
    Skipped junior high altogether, or what?
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    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  7. #97  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    As no living human has ever seen the kind of flooding and devastation described in Genesis, I fail to see how you can be sure of the impossibility. Given an accurate description of events, the flood could most certainly account for not only the fossils, but the strata, also. There is a simple experiment outlined in one of my kid's science books...take dirt and sand from several different sources and put them in a jar, all mixed up. Pour in water to cover, let sit a day, then shake. Let sit another day, and you'll see the various strata have developed. Given an earth-wide flood lasting nearly a year, with hugely catastrophic results documented by the missing rivers, the radically short life spans, etc., the strata would have certainly formed as things settled.
    Well, again, theres simply not enough planet (land or water) to support the life contained in the fossil record. That makes it impossible

    The amount of water needed, again, does not exist on earth. This also makes it impossible

    The configuration of fossils in the strata, rules out mass extinction by global flood. We would expect the heavier remains from large creatures to sink to the lower, while the remains of smaller microorganisms would stay near the top. You'd also think we would find a few human fossils mixed in as well. However, there is no such pattern, which also makes global flood impossible.

    There's a big difference between sifting sand of different density in a jar and forming layers of rock. What your sand in a jar experiment shows is that heavier, denser objects sink faster. The fact that heavier things tend to sink faster actually shows that the story of the global flood (and the accompanying mass extinction) is impossible.
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  8. #98  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Well, again, theres simply not enough planet (land or water) to support the life contained in the fossil record. That makes it impossible

    The amount of water needed, again, does not exist on earth. This also makes it impossible

    The configuration of fossils in the strata, rules out mass extinction by global flood. We would expect the heavier remains from large creatures to sink to the lower, while the remains of smaller microorganisms would stay near the top. You'd also think we would find a few human fossils mixed in as well. However, there is no such pattern, which also makes global flood impossible.

    There's a big difference between sifting sand of different density in a jar and forming layers of rock. What your sand in a jar experiment shows is that heavier, denser objects sink faster. The fact that heavier things tend to sink faster actually shows that the story of the global flood (and the accompanying mass extinction) is impossible.

    There is enough water on earth. Much of it is now underground. The configuration of fossils definitely supports mass extinction. The biggest question is what caused the mass extinction. As many of the smaller organisms exist in oceans, they were buried where they lived. Those that floated up did not become fossils. There is no reason to expect that there were enough humans on earth for many to fossilize, and of the few that may have, they haven't been found. Chances are excellent that they weren't running around with a herd of dinosaurs so didn't happen to die in the same place. If any were fossilized, we haven't excavated that/those places yet. The strata may seem to organize in some way, but the strata seldom, if ever, line up correctly and there are constant discoveries of one creature or another in a much older strata causing constant shifts of when a certain creature "evolved." I'm sure some of the fossils were formed by forces other than the flood, also.
    We've also seen how rapidly a volcano can build strata, and how quickly that new "rock" can be cut into canyons in Washington state, so it obviously does not always take millions of years to form layers.
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    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  9. #99  
    Here again, we've gotten off track. Surely you folks are capable of starting another new REL thread to discuss this issue. Be specific - stay on point. REL threads are not like ordinary Lounge threads or GD threads. Stay on point or start another thread. Get it? I hope so.

    I believe in a judgment where the living will be separated from the "dead". What that looks like exactly, I'm not sure. Recent biblical studies have given me to believe that the damned will be annihilated eventually.
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  10. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Skepticism has its place but it seems also to place limits on lines of inquiry that I prefer to keep open.
    I'm all for keeping lines of reasoning open, if for no other reason than its fun to see where different premises can lead. But in relation to the afterlife or other religious notions most of those premises and where they lead have generally served to make me more skeptical, instead of the reverse;).

    Some experiences may be actual spiritual experiences, some may be the misfiring of synapses in the brain and others may be satanic delusions to mislead people. The question to me is how to determine which is which. Using scripture as a basis, I know that God or Christ or The Holy Spirit will never expect me to do something that violates scripture. For example, if someone says that they had a dream and in that dream God told them to leave their wife for... whatever reason. This violates one of God's commandments and God will not ask you to do something that violates his laws. Christ tells me to love my neighbor so He will never tell me to go and beat the crap out of him because he won't cut his grass.

    I had a spiritual experience that turned me from Taoism in to a devout Christian literally overnight. Do I accept the reality of the experience? Yes. Can I prove to you that it was not a delusion or trick of the mind? Probably not. All I can do is to ask you to accept the reality of my experience based on the radical positive change it created in me. Now we have returned to subjectivity and until we die or Christ returns will have to accept that our views will be subjective.

    I firmly believe, however, that Kant was on the right track when he stated that as humans we are equipped to understand the physical world only so far as our senses will allow. If there is more to the physical world we can never know about it. However, we can use our rational mind and reason to deduce the existence of the "metaphysical" based on subjective evidence and logic. I find it very interesting that the philosopher Xenophanes deduced the existence of a Creator that closely resembles the nature of God as He has revealed himself in the Bible.
    I do think the premise that we may be able to deduce the existence of the metaphysical is interesting, but I remain unconvinced that it is sound. Generally, I think it leads one to deduce the type of god one desires to exist.

    Wilbur, I have really come to value our conversations on these topics and I truly look forward to many more in the future, but I am conflicted. I hope that the Lord will give you an experience like mine (hopefully less painful) and call you to the Faith because I believe that you would be a powerful defender of the Faith, but if He did we would cease to have these wonderful conversations that keep me up on a Sunday night a lot longer than I intended.

    Peace,
    Gary
    You are always one of the most thought provoking posters on this forum FG, I enjoy our conversations as well. The conversations will probably be safe for a long time, rest easy;)
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