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  1. #1 The Baby Killers Are Back 
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    Anyone who knows me know I am very pro-life, so threads like this just piss me off :mad:

    Liberals STILL suck at explaining why abortion should be legal.
    You ready for a flamefest?

    We're losing ground on the abortion issue, and that's in large part because when we speak about it we speak in dogmatic terms. There's no actual reasoning, only question-begging.

    Why should abortion be legal? Because women have the right to choose.

    That's not enough. You have to set out the reasoning for why women have abortion rights.


    Take the Iraq War as an example. If someone asks you why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, you can't just say "Because it was wrong." That's not a reason. It's begging the question. Instead, you say things like, "Because it's wrong to attack a country who hasn't attacked us, and we've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, distracted ourselves from rooting out Al Qaeda, wasted hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars, destroyed the goodwill the world had for us after 9/11, etc." That's reasoning.

    Now, believe it or not, you can reason your way to abortion rights. You don't have to limit yourself to yelling and shaking your fist and brute repetition of the desired conclusion itself. I'm not going to give reasoning here, lest I be accused of arrogance and chauvinism, but I will tell you that the way we've been going won't hold up and there is another way. Both sides of the issue have been relying on dogma to prop up their arguments for so long, and the religious side is winning due to their organization. Yes, if we're going to win we have to actually explain why we're right. And that's when we'll win, because dogma and the Bible is all the fascists have.
    So I'm a facist for wanted an innocent child to have a chance at life? :mad:

    BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:02 PM
    Response to Reply #1
    4. That's pretty much it if we elaborate a bit.
    Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 04:03 PM by BullGooseLoony
    The state can't force a person to allow a fetus to feed off of their body without violating their liberty interests. A woman has the right to stop that process at any time during pregnancy, for any reason. She doesn't even need a justification, at all- it's absolute.
    You kind of have to attack the law itself, what would be done to stop abortion if they could get it passed. The state would be overstepping its authority.
    What about violating the baby's liberty?

    BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:16 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    15. The great thing about a proper pro-choice argument is that it takes personhood into account.
    Whether the fetus is a person or not, it doesn't have the right to use someone else's body to sustain itself against that person's will.
    Ridiculous! The baby has no say in the matter, why should they be deprived of life?

    notadmblnd (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:54 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    28. as long as it lives and breaths out side of the womb, then IMO it has a right to live.
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    jody (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:57 PM
    Response to Reply #28
    29. "lives and breaths out side of the womb" with or without help? n/t
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    notadmblnd (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 05:02 PM
    Response to Reply #29
    31. without assistance. I would no more put a baby on life support than I would my aged mother.
    WTF???

    I couldn't even stomach reading the rest of the thread :mad:


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  2. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug68 View Post
    Anyone who knows me know I am very pro-life, so threads like this just piss me off :mad:



    So I'm a facist for wanted an innocent child to have a chance at life? :mad:



    What about violating the baby's liberty?



    Ridiculous! The baby has no say in the matter, why should they be deprived of life?



    WTF???

    I couldn't even stomach reading the rest of the thread :mad:


    http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3607209
    With all of the ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place only the very young or the very stupid would need an abortion.
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  3. #3  
    Eyelids
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    Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way. Deal with it Ms. Ambulance Driver.
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  4. #4  
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    BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:16 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    15. The great thing about a proper pro-choice argument is that it takes personhood into account.
    Whether the fetus is a person or not, it doesn't have the right to use someone else's body to sustain itself against that person's will.
    If this guy were consistent he would use nearly the exact same argument against welfare and state sponsored healthcare.
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  5. #5  
    Eyelids
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    I just dont see why you guys care about this.
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I just dont see why you guys care about this.
    Because innocent babies are being killed by abortion every day, often just for the convenience of the mother. That just doesn't sit right with us.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I just dont see why you guys care about this.
    We care for the same reason we would oppose any other cold-blooded murder. Our society is so sick that those who experiment on animals to provide medical care for humans are in much greater danger than those who slaughter over a million humans every year. There are thousands of rules about the humane slaughter of cattle, sheep, chickens...but humans are ripped limb from limb with no anesthetic, no sympathy, no humanity at all...and all done because Mommy wants a dead baby instead of a living one.
    -
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    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I just dont see why you guys care about this.

    Perhaps because we are against murdering innocent humans.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way. Deal with it Ms. Ambulance Driver.
    Excuse me? I am not an "ambulance driver." I am an Emergency Medical Technician and an RN and if, God forbid, you or someone you loved ever had to call 911, you'd be damn glad to see me and would never insult me that way to my face. But then again, you just reinforce my opinion that you are lower than dirt on the evolutionary ladder with every word you type.
    They're not people, they're hippies!! -Cartman

    It is nothing against you to fall down flat, but to lie there - that's disgrace
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  10. #10  
    Eyelids
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug68 View Post
    Excuse me? I am not an "ambulance driver." I am an Emergency Medical Technician and an RN and if, God forbid, you or someone you loved ever had to call 911, you'd be damn glad to see me and would never insult me that way to my face. But then again, you just reinforce my opinion that you are lower than dirt on the evolutionary ladder with every word you type.
    Erm... whats it take to be an EMT? 2 years at the community college taking gen ed classes?

    Gas is on the right, brake is on the left and wheel in the middle... only the turn on the sirens for emergencies.
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