The Baby Killers Are Back

**Junebug68** · 07-13-2008, 12:42 PM

Anyone who knows me know I am very pro-life, so threads like this just piss me off :mad:

Liberals STILL suck at explaining why abortion should be legal.
You ready for a flamefest?

We're losing ground on the abortion issue, and that's in large part because when we speak about it we speak in dogmatic terms. There's no actual reasoning, only question-begging.

Why should abortion be legal? Because women have the right to choose.

That's not enough. You have to set out the reasoning for why women have abortion rights.

Take the Iraq War as an example. If someone asks you why we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, you can't just say "Because it was wrong." That's not a reason. It's begging the question. Instead, you say things like, "Because it's wrong to attack a country who hasn't attacked us, and we've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, distracted ourselves from rooting out Al Qaeda, wasted hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars, destroyed the goodwill the world had for us after 9/11, etc." That's reasoning.

Now, believe it or not, you can reason your way to abortion rights. You don't have to limit yourself to yelling and shaking your fist and brute repetition of the desired conclusion itself. I'm not going to give reasoning here, lest I be accused of arrogance and chauvinism, but I will tell you that the way we've been going won't hold up and there is another way. Both sides of the issue have been relying on dogma to prop up their arguments for so long, and the religious side is winning due to their organization. Yes, if we're going to win we have to actually explain why we're right. And that's when we'll win, because dogma and the Bible is all the fascists have.

So I'm a facist for wanted an innocent child to have a chance at life? :mad:

BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. That's pretty much it if we elaborate a bit.
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 04:03 PM by BullGooseLoony
The state can't force a person to allow a fetus to feed off of their body without violating their liberty interests. A woman has the right to stop that process at any time during pregnancy, for any reason. She doesn't even need a justification, at all- it's absolute.
You kind of have to attack the law itself, what would be done to stop abortion if they could get it passed. The state would be overstepping its authority.

What about violating the baby's liberty?

BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. The great thing about a proper pro-choice argument is that it takes personhood into account.
Whether the fetus is a person or not, it doesn't have the right to use someone else's body to sustain itself against that person's will.

Ridiculous! The baby has no say in the matter, why should they be deprived of life?

notadmblnd (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. as long as it lives and breaths out side of the womb, then IMO it has a right to live.
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jody (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. "lives and breaths out side of the womb" with or without help? n/t
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notadmblnd (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. without assistance. I would no more put a baby on life support than I would my aged mother.

WTF???

I couldn't even stomach reading the rest of the thread :mad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3607209

**megimoo** · 07-13-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Junebug68

Anyone who knows me know I am very pro-life, so threads like this just piss me off :mad:

So I'm a facist for wanted an innocent child to have a chance at life? :mad:

What about violating the baby's liberty?

Ridiculous! The baby has no say in the matter, why should they be deprived of life?

WTF???

I couldn't even stomach reading the rest of the thread :mad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3607209

With all of the ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place only the very young or the very stupid would need an abortion.

Eyelids · 07-13-2008, 02:13 PM

Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way. Deal with it Ms. Ambulance Driver.

**buck** · 07-13-2008, 02:31 PM

BullGooseLoony (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-12-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. The great thing about a proper pro-choice argument is that it takes personhood into account.
Whether the fetus is a person or not, it doesn't have the right to use someone else's body to sustain itself against that person's will.

If this guy were consistent he would use nearly the exact same argument against welfare and state sponsored healthcare.

Eyelids · 07-13-2008, 02:34 PM

I just dont see why you guys care about this.

**Junebug68** · 07-13-2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way. Deal with it Ms. Ambulance Driver.

Excuse me? I am not an "ambulance driver." I am an Emergency Medical Technician and an RN and if, God forbid, you or someone you loved ever had to call 911, you'd be damn glad to see me and would never insult me that way to my face. But then again, you just reinforce my opinion that you are lower than dirt on the evolutionary ladder with every word you type.

**CLibertarian** · 07-13-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by megimoo

With all of the ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place only the very young or the very stupid would need an abortion.

Many of the more Liberal minded people that I know here in the midwest (conservative in comparison to the east coast, left coast, and urban cesspools) seem to lean Pro-Life but, are still reluctant to declare it illegal. More and more, I hear references to promoting present birth control methods/technology that are available. Even the "Pro"-Life Liberals have disdain for abortion simply being used as a form of birth control when contraception exists and will be given out for free in many places. The end result is a belief that steps should be taken to eliminate the "necessisty" for abortion. While their logic is flawed in that they perceive some abortions to be a necessity, it would still have the same result of reducing/eliminating abortions.

As a Pro-Life person, I would have no problem with it being declared illegal. In fact, I would prefer that to occur. However, I'm also willing to accept smaller steps toward that logical end. Some staunch Pro-Lifers have issues with this view. They are not willing to accept anything but, a declaration of illegality. By alientating such views, even from Liberals, they shut out a vast majority that would still eventually achieve the desired results.

**megimoo** · 07-13-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Eyelids

Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way. Deal with it Ms. Ambulance Driver.

Isn't it a shame that the Abortionists missed you foul mouth !
After Obama has his ass handed to him and President McCain appoints a few more real judges to the court we shall see .Deal with that bird brain !

Eyelids · 07-13-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Junebug68

Excuse me? I am not an "ambulance driver." I am an Emergency Medical Technician and an RN and if, God forbid, you or someone you loved ever had to call 911, you'd be damn glad to see me and would never insult me that way to my face. But then again, you just reinforce my opinion that you are lower than dirt on the evolutionary ladder with every word you type.

Erm... whats it take to be an EMT? 2 years at the community college taking gen ed classes?

Gas is on the right, brake is on the left and wheel in the middle... only the turn on the sirens for emergencies.

**megimoo** · 07-13-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by CLibertarian

Many of the more Liberal minded people that I know here in the midwest (conservative in comparison to the east coast, left coast, and urban cesspools) seem to lean Pro-Life but, are still reluctant to declare it illegal. More and more, I hear references to promoting present birth control methods/technology that are available. Even the "Pro"-Life Liberals have disdain for abortion simply being used as a form of birth control when contraception exists and will be given out for free in many places. The end result is a belief that steps should be taken to eliminate the "necessisty" for abortion. While their logic is flawed in that they perceive some abortions to be a necessity, it would still have the same result of reducing/eliminating abortions.

As a Pro-Life person, I would have no problem with it being declared illegal. In fact, I would prefer that to occur. However, I'm also willing to accept smaller steps toward that logical end. Some staunch Pro-Lifers have issues with this view. They are not willing to accept anything but, a declaration of illegality. By alientating such views, even from Liberals, they shut out a vast majority that would still eventually achieve the desired results.

I agree .There are always some real Medical circumstances that could justify an abortion but the taking of a new human life just for the 'convenience ' of a confused and frightened young girl is wrong.

Organizations exist to help any mother to receive the free help and medical care she needs for herself and her new baby and people are 'lined up in the streets' waiting to adopt a new child rather than kill it !

If you would care for an example of the extreme fear and hypocrisy of the pro Abortion gang simple post a link to a 'slaughter house abortion mill' in all of its gory picture details and stand by for the shrikes of outrage from the pro Abortionists !

The precess of conception and birth once started are not to be hindered by a money driven Abortion Corporation with a political agenda IMHO !