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  1. #1 How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?.. 
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    The Catholic Obama Vote and the Counterbalance to Abortion

    A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

    How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?... The moral calculus does look easy until one considers that war, torture, the death penalty, poverty, racism, and even the excesses of capitalism those evils so well defined in Catholic social teaching, and of concern to Catholics of all political persuasions are fully present in the act of abortion.

    Consider: War is a struggle between two evolving powers over who will have dominance; whether just or unjust, it involves the murder of the innocent and the disruption of families. War introduces pain, fire, violence, savagery and... snip

    Abortion providers are capitalist enterprises that often indulge in among other things unlicensed and unscrupulous practices and the exploitation of women in difficult circumstances, in pursuit of maximum profit.

    A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

    Catholicism does not reject reason for faith but demands integration of the two, and prayerful discernment, before taking any action. It serves both prayer and reason to consider that abortion is not separate from the evils of war, torture, poverty and the rest, but of a piece with them.

    In fact, abortion supersedes those issues by dint of its personal nature.

    Government policy affects war, poverty, and the rest, while abortion is like the casting of a vote a personal choice.

    But it is a personal choice for the physical and intellectual internalization of war, and of torture, and of the death penalty, and of poverty, and of racism, and of capitalistic exploitation.

    Thus weighed, the only counterbalance is life.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-cat...to-abortion/2/


    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-cat...e-to-abortion/
     

  2. #2  
    Eyelids
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    I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.
    Last edited by Eyelids; 07-13-2008 at 01:28 PM.
     

  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    The Catholic Obama Vote and the Counterbalance to Abortion

    A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

    How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?... The moral calculus does look easy until one considers that war, torture, the death penalty, poverty, racism, and even the excesses of capitalism — those evils so well defined in Catholic social teaching, and of concern to Catholics of all political persuasions — are fully present in the act of abortion.

    Consider: War is a struggle between two evolving powers over who will have dominance; whether just or unjust, it involves the murder of the innocent and the disruption of families. War introduces pain, fire, violence, savagery and... snip

    Abortion providers are capitalist enterprises that often indulge in — among other things — unlicensed and unscrupulous practices and the exploitation of women in difficult circumstances, in pursuit of maximum profit.

    A Catholic conscience is a complex thing that must rely on more than bumper stickers and impassioned rhetoric.

    Catholicism does not reject reason for faith but demands integration of the two, and prayerful discernment, before taking any action. It serves both prayer and reason to consider that abortion is not separate from the evils of war, torture, poverty and the rest, but of a piece with them.

    In fact, abortion supersedes those issues by dint of its personal nature.

    Government policy affects war, poverty, and the rest, while abortion is — like the casting of a vote — a personal choice.

    But it is a personal choice for the physical and intellectual internalization of war, and of torture, and of the death penalty, and of poverty, and of racism, and of capitalistic exploitation.

    Thus weighed, the only counterbalance is life.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-cat...to-abortion/2/


    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-cat...e-to-abortion/

    Megimoo,

    I grew up a pro-choice Catholic. And there were a lot of us. In the same way that there are a lot of Catholics who use birth control despite the 1964 Papal message on the subject. American Catholics are less likely to unswervingly follow their leaders than other religious sects. I am not sure why this is the case.
     

  4. #4  
    Goldwater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.
    They'll never die as national issues so long as they are considered federal territory.
     

  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I think Abortion and Gay Marriage have finally died as national issues. Thank god.

     

  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Megimoo,

    I grew up a pro-choice Catholic. And there were a lot of us. In the same way that there are a lot of Catholics who use birth control despite the 1964 Papal message on the subject. American Catholics are less likely to unswervingly follow their leaders than other religious sects. I am not sure why this is the case.
    Oddly enough I do not equate the failure of the flock to follow the dictates of the Pope on birth control with failing to follow in regards to abortion. I probably should. But I don't.

    I don't believe, however, that the number of pro-choice Catholics equals the number of pro-birth control using Catholics. I have no statistics to back me up on that...just anecdotal evidence.
     

  7. #7  
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    Oddly enough I do not equate the failure of the flock to follow the dictates of the Pope on birth control with failing to follow in regards to abortion. I probably should. But I don't.

    I don't believe, however, that the number of pro-choice Catholics equals the number of pro-birth control using Catholics. I have no statistics to back me up on that...just anecdotal evidence.
    I agree pro-choice Catholics are a rarity where as birth control Catholics are prevalent !
    Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !
     

  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !
    That's not even what it's called.
     

  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    I agree pro-choice Catholics are a rarity where as birth control Catholics are prevalent !
    Active Advocation of abortion by a Catholic is grounds for excommunion !
    While it's probably true that there are more "pro-birth control" Catholics than pro-choice ones, they're not exactly a rarity in the US at least:

    CBS News Poll. May 20-23, 2004. N=923 registered voters nationwide. MoE 3 (total sample).

    "Which of these comes closest to your view? Abortion should be generally available to those who want it. Abortion should be available, but under stricter limits than it is now. OR, Abortion should not be permitted."

    Generally Available - Stricter Limits - Not Permitted - Unsure

    36 37 25 2 ALL

    34 37 28 1 CATHOLICS
     

  10. #10  
    Roman Catholics in the United States are often fairly unfamiliar with their own church doctrines. They just haven't been well taught by their parents or by their religious leadership. There are a lot of Catholics who are essentially "cultural catholics" (and Catholics aren't alone in this one). They enjoy being part of a larger community and having a certain cultural identity but they don't look too closely at the actual requirements of the faith. It's less about Rome than about fundamental truths that the Church has come to in a number of ways over time.

    For these people, it's easier to retain the cultural identification and still do their own thing than to examine the requirements and determine if they are willing to abide by them - even in disagreement - or to leave.

    As each generation becomes less and less familiar with the faith, more leave. The RC has retained it's membership levels only through the influx of legal and illegal immigrants in the last 30 years.
     

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