Thread: Bible Thumpers ..take this

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  1. #21  
    Senior Betwixt Member Bubba Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    If there was no one there to hear it did it make a bang?
    Actually, yes. That would make it the Big Thud Theory. Echos of the tree thing.

    Big Thud sounds like a nose tackle.
    Hey careful man! There's a beverage here!
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Doubting the big bang theory now?
    No. The Big Bang is science fact. We know that the Big Bang took place. What we don't know is what took place before the Big Bang... or even if there was a "before" the Big Bang. One hypothesis is that the Big Bang was not the beginning of the Universe per se but the beginning of the Universe as we see it today. In other words, matter-energy and even time may have existed before the Big Bang. In a weird sort of way, it makes sense... if matter-energy can't be destroyed then perhaps it wasn't created. Maybe it's just the way things are that matter-energy have always been around. The Universe is under no obligation to make sense. :)
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 08-30-2009 at 01:02 AM.
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Wizard View Post
    Hey TNO! Welcome back.
    Hi. Thanks for that.
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  4. #24  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    No. The Big Bang is science fact. We know that the Big Bang took place. What we don't know is what, if anything, took place before the Big Bang... or even if there was a "before" the Big Bang. One hypothesis is that the Big Bang was not the beginning of the Universe per se but the beginning of the Universe as we see it today. In other words, matter-energy and even time may have existed before the Big Bang. In a weird sort of way, it makes sense... if matter-energy can't be destroyed then perhaps it wasn't created. Maybe it's just the way things are that matter-energy have always been around. The Universe is under no obligation to make sense. :)
    Pretty sure it's still a theory bud. There is a lot of supporting evidence, no doubt about that, but fact is a pretty strong word, and one that even I'm not ready to use yet.
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  5. #25  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    No. The Big Bang is science fact. We know that the Big Bang took place. What we don't know is what took place before the Big Bang... or even if there was a "before" the Big Bang. One hypothesis is that the Big Bang was not the beginning of the Universe per se but the beginning of the Universe as we see it today. In other words, matter-energy and even time may have existed before the Big Bang. In a weird sort of way, it makes sense... if matter-energy can't be destroyed then perhaps it wasn't created. Maybe it's just the way things are that matter-energy have always been around. The Universe is under no obligation to make sense. :)
    Do we know that in fact it took place? I am a believer in the big bang but since no one saw it and the process hasn't been repeated experimentally, then to call it a fact is ludicrous. It is a positive explanation for the known facts and is a mathematically sound theory, but it is far from a fact.

    Also, since time begin with the big bang and seems to be a property of this Universe then there was no before. Time would have to pre-date the creation and so far there is no evidence whether empirical or mathematical that allows for this. It doesn't specfically rule it out but more study needs to be done.

    That the Universe is under no obligation to make sense is a truism and in fact, because so much of it does make sense and does so in a manner that is understandable by humans is a pro-God argument. The argument goes that he created us with the ability to understand creation and thus to some degree recognize that there is a creator. Paul speaks of this in Romans :
    Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    There is no reason why the universe should be as constrained to mathematical principles as it and this fact strengths the possibility of a Creator God. Also that we have enough intelligence to grasp these principles and constraints leans credence to the possibility of a Creator more than it takes away from that possibility.

    This is one of the major philosophical questions; why does the universe make since and why should be be able to make sense of it. Paul provides one possible answer and to believers it is the only answer that makes sense.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Pretty sure it's still a theory bud. There is a lot of supporting evidence, no doubt about that, but fact is a pretty strong word, and one that even I'm not ready to use yet.
    We have enough observational evidence of the Big Bang to call it a science fact. The same can be said of Evolution.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Also, since time begin with the big bang and seems to be a property of this Universe then there was no before. Time would have to pre-date the creation and so far there is no evidence whether empirical or mathematical that allows for this. It doesn't specfically rule it out but more study needs to be done.
    http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._big_bang.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7440217.stm
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba Dawg View Post
    Big Thud sounds like a nose tackle.
    Or a B-17, B-24 or a B-29 during WW2.
    Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
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  9. #29  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    We have enough observational evidence of the Big Bang to call it a science fact. The same can be said of Evolution.
    UCLA Division of Astronomy and Astrophysics disagress with you.

    The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven.
    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/co...tml#BBevidence

    And NASA is saying much the same.

    http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_theory.html
    Last edited by djones520; 08-30-2009 at 06:08 PM.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    UCLA Division of Astronomy and Astrophysics disagress with you.

    http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/co...tml#BBevidence

    And NASA is saying much the same.

    http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_theory.html
    Proof is attainable only in mathematics. Calling a theory a "science fact" isn't meant to suggest that it's proven or irrefutable but rather that it should be accepted as true unless evidence showing it's wrong surfaces.

    A good article on how a theory can be both theory and fact...

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 08-30-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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