Atheist Blames Mother Theresa for Misery.

[wilbur]

Sir, it is real simple.

We call it faith, with faith we need no proof, it just is. I strongly disagree with Atheists but I respect their opinion. That is the American way, freedom to believe or not to.

You have probably been asked before, what if you are wrong?

Pascal's wager is what your question paraphrases and it is really a simple risk assessment formula. It tries to say that if there is a non-zero probability of something being true, and if it has infinite negative consequences (or infinite positive consequences), and also requires little to no sacrifice to avoid or attain those consequences, then from a risk management standpoint, you should bet on it being true.

Sounds sensible enough at first glance... but its reasonable to conclude that every single religion has a non-zero probability of being true, and that there are other possible infinite afterlives which will either be better for me than Christian heaven, or worse for me than Christian hell (they both are pretty generic). By the rules of the wager, I should find the religion which poses the greatest risk (or reward) to my eternal well-being and believe in it, instead. So if one wants to bet their life according to the wager, it should hardly be a given that Christianity is the religion to choose. So, what if you are wrong? I hear Islam's afterlife is supposed to be pretty cool (at least for us men).

The other portion where it fails, is the assumption that the sacrifice of this life, is no sacrifice at all. Indeed, I will have given up the only existence and chance at well-being I may ever have, living according to a philosophy I don't actually think is true. I do not think this is a trivial sacrifice, and it is possibly the largest sacrifice that its possible to ask of a person. The actual sensible choice, is to attempt to discover what is most probably true, and live according to what ever that is.

[wilbur]

Nope, none at all.

It is not logical that people who reserve sex for faithful, committed marriages will have far less chance of catching STDs than people who use a condom most of the time with multiple partners.

It is not logical to look at the efficiency of birth control by condoms...about 85%...and the number of days a woman can get pregnant in a month, and see that, if condoms can't even manage to work 4 or 5 days a month, they can't work very well 28 days a month.

It is not logical to believe that inefficient condoms have done as much to kill people as abortion has.

Nope. No logic at all.

But it's logical to believe that the rate of STDs and teen pregnancy in the US absolutely prove wilbur's logic.

Right? :D

Still missing the point - you can have your cake and eat it too. You can work to promote abstinence, and all your beloved sexual virtues - while also providing a positive view of birth control. Combined strategies, of encouraging responsible sexual behavior through education and social pressure, along with birth control, result in a society with far less sex related problems than societies which do only one of the two.

In fact, when one uses only one of the two options, it makes matters worse. For example, teaching abstinence only, while stigmatizing or otherwise marginalizing birth control, results in more disease, more unwanted pregnancy, and all around more sexual dysfunction. Yet this has been, for all intents and purposes, the Christian strategy towards sex - and in Africa, it really hurts. It's no hyperbole to say that people die because of abstinence policies that leave birth control marginalized and stigmatized.

And of course, handing out birth control, without any sort of plan to encourage responsible sexual behavior, can also be a recipe for disaster.

[Puggsy]

Why are you guys antagonizing him?
He's obviously made his mind up, Is quite intelligent and brings up an interesting point regarding potential afterlife benefits.

Trying to convince him of intelligent design on a forum will do nothing but drive him further from it.

[wilbur]

Why are you guys antagonizing him?
He's obviously made his mind up, Is quite intelligent and brings up an interesting point regarding potential afterlife benefits.

Trying to convince him of intelligent design on a forum will do nothing but drive him further from it.

I don't feel that anyone here was antagonizing... just chatting. Well, MrsSmith is always antagonizing - but I start that sometimes.

[Lanie]

Discovery

I have always been curious about the arguments against Mother Theresa. I do think it might be possible that the argument against building all those convents could be valid because that is money that could have been used to help the poor. However, I'm sure she still did a lot to help the poor.

[Lanie]

Ya know - if you abstain from cheap meaningless sex - and teach the third world that you do not cure aids by sleeping with virgins - imagine how much better life could be?

I agree, but there's still nothing wrong with family planning. One of my gripes about stuff like the gag order isn't just an issue of abortion, but that we wouldn't give money to anybody who even mentioned the a word. They didn't have to perform abortions to be deprived of funding. They just had to say the a word. In light of the fact that the third world is in such bad health (and that women dying in childbirth is much more common over there), I think this was wrong. The RCC can take whatever stands they want to, but I often believe that they and some others do not completely get the pro-life picture. It's like some people are saying that pro-life only is about life in the womb.

[MrsSmith]

I agree, but there's still nothing wrong with family planning. One of my gripes about stuff like the gag order isn't just an issue of abortion, but that we wouldn't give money to anybody who even mentioned the a word. They didn't have to perform abortions to be deprived of funding. They just had to say the a word. In light of the fact that the third world is in such bad health (and that women dying in childbirth is much more common over there), I think this was wrong. The RCC can take whatever stands they want to, but I often believe that they and some others do not completely get the pro-life picture. It's like some people are saying that pro-life only is about life in the womb.

We would much rather continue to build hospitals and orphanages...and fund both...than the alternative. It like some people just don't get the picture that abortion always causes at least one human death. Far, far better to save both mother and baby(ies). And yes, despite the very tired old liberal lie, Christians do provide as much care as we possibly can, both before and after birth. In truth, in Africa, "Christian" is not an insult.

[Lanie]

We would much rather continue to build hospitals and orphanages...and fund both...than the alternative. It like some people just don't get the picture that abortion always causes at least one human death. Far, far better to save both mother and baby(ies). And yes, despite the very tired old liberal lie, Christians do provide as much care as we possibly can, both before and after birth. In truth, in Africa, "Christian" is not an insult.

But if a place simply talks about abortion, but never performs them, then what deaths have occured?

[PoliCon]

I agree, but there's still nothing wrong with family planning. One of my gripes about stuff like the gag order isn't just an issue of abortion, but that we wouldn't give money to anybody who even mentioned the a word. They didn't have to perform abortions to be deprived of funding. They just had to say the a word. In light of the fact that the third world is in such bad health (and that women dying in childbirth is much more common over there), I think this was wrong. The RCC can take whatever stands they want to, but I often believe that they and some others do not completely get the pro-life picture. It's like some people are saying that pro-life only is about life in the womb.

One of the chief goals of family planning should be learning how to control our baser instincts. Self control is one of the few things that separate us from animals.

[Rockntractor]

One of the chief goals of family planning should be learning how to control our baser instincts. Self control is one of the few things that separate us from animals.

Snif snif mmmmm! Woof baby woof!