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  1. #11  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwater View Post
    Well, every Empire over-extends itself, has America?
    We are not nor have we ever been an empire! I can't speak for the future though.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Morality isn't all about sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll. The particular type of morality that the Romans abandoned had more to do with civic morality, justice, and their version of the social contract.
    You know, for him to be an atheist, Wilbur sure does cling to religion.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    We are not nor have we ever been an empire! I can't speak for the future though.
    ;)
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  4. #14  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    You know, for him to be an atheist, Wilbur sure does cling to religion.
    It's been pointed out to him that he has an unhealthy obsession with all things Christian, but I suspect he was to obsessed to notice. ;)

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    It's been pointed out to him that he has an unhealthy obsession with all things Christian, but I suspect he was to obsessed to notice. ;)
    Yet, nowhere in this thread did I bring it up...
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  6. #16  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Yet, nowhere in this thread did I bring it up...
    Your obsession surrounds you like a cloud. For example when you stated that Roman was not a very moral place to begin with, whose moral yard stick were you using as verfication of that statement?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Your obsession surrounds you like a cloud. For example when you stated that Roman was not a very moral place to begin with, whose moral yard stick were you using as verfication of that statement?
    That would be the same consensus of social norms that one appeals to when they cite the ambiguous "moral decay" of Rome. Whatever your theories on the source of the stuff, is largely irrelevant.
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  8. #18  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    That would be the same consensus of social norms that one appeals to when they cite the ambiguous "moral decay" of Rome. Whatever your theories on the source of the stuff, is largely irrelevant.
    My "theories" are based on the commentary of historians who study these things so I would say that if my sources are not as irrelevant as you may think. The 'moral decay' that you wish to deny is based on more than sexual perversion and aggressive expansionism. I based move view of moral decay on the standards that were prevalent at the time. To be honest I'm not even sure what
    'the same consensus of social norms that one appeals to when they cite the ambiguous "moral decay" of Rome'

    is. What consensus are you referring to? I would like to know because I think that you just made that up. Go get a copy of "When Nations Die" by Jim Nelson Black and have a read. You might find it enlightening but perhaps not. Historians who specialize in the study of Rome would disagree with you too. Historian James Burke agrees with you that Rome a immoral place to begin with but he seems to be using a more modern standard of morals when he makes his comparison. Edward Gibbon gets a better handle on the concept of the failing morality of Rome by using the moral standards that were present at the time

    There are lots of reasons for the fall of Rome, not the least of which is moral decay, but I question why you poked in to this conversation when I brought up moral decay? I feel that you suspect that I was making this comment based on some Christian concept of morality and your obsession with all things Christians force you to comment on my comment. Since I wasn't the only one who noticed this it seems your reasons for entry in to the discussion is more apparent to others that it is to you. At any rate, I'm glad you joined the discussion for any reason that seems good to you.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  9. #19 First step is to remove 
    the permanent political class in the country. Vote them out.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    More like the British Empire than Rome.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
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