Thread: Swiss ban mosque minarets in surprise vote [IT'S OFFICIAL]

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  1. #1 Swiss ban mosque minarets in surprise vote [IT'S OFFICIAL] 
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    GENEVA – Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets on Sunday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population.

    Muslim groups in Switzerland and abroad condemned the vote as biased and anti-Islamic. Business groups said the decision hurt Switzerland's international standing and could damage relations with Muslim nations and wealthy investors who bank, travel and shop there.

    "The Swiss have failed to give a clear signal for diversity, freedom of religion and human rights," said Omar Al-Rawi, integration representative of the Islamic Denomination in Austria, which said its reaction was "grief and deep disappointment."

    About 300 people turned out for a spontaneous demonstration on the square outside parliament, holding up signs saying, "That is not my Switzerland," placing candles in front of a model of a minaret and making another minaret shape out of the candles themselves.

    "We're sorry," said another sign. A young woman pinned to her jacket a piece of paper saying, "Swiss passport for sale."

    The referendum by the nationalist Swiss People's Party labeled minarets as symbols of rising Muslim political power that could one day transform Switzerland into an Islamic nation. The initiative was approved 57.5 to 42.5 percent by some 2.67 million voters.

    Only four of the 26 cantons or states opposed the initiative, granting the double approval that makes it part of the Swiss constitution.

    Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says.

    The country's four standing minarets, which won't be affected by the ban, do not traditionally broadcast the call to prayer outside their own buildings.

    The sponsors of the initiative provoked complaints of bias from local officials and human-rights group with campaign posters that showed minarets rising like missiles from the Swiss flag next to a fully veiled woman. Backers said the growing Muslim population was straining the country "because Muslims don't just practice religion."



    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091129/...NzYmFubW9zcQ--
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    from gerald warner's column in times uk:

    Switzerland has voted overwhelmingly to ban triumphalist minarets on Muslim mosques. On a respectable turnout of 55 per cent, there was a landslide victory for banning minarets: nearly 58 per cent for a ban… This went completely contrary to pre-referendum opinion polls which had shown a 10 per cent lead for the pro-minaret camp; instead, the margin was 16 per cent in favour of a ban. People lied to opinion pollsters. Are they doing the same in Britain?

    It is no coincidence that the people most loudly bemoaning the ban on minarets in Switzerland are those who most vociferously applauded the prohibition on crucifixes in Italian classrooms. The consistent principle is an attack on European Christian civilisation, complemented by subservience to all the enemies of that civilisation, secular or Islamic…

    The Swiss voters have not forbidden the practice of the Muslim religion: they have simply insisted that it should not indulge in triumphalism by towering over Christian churches. If they had really wanted to play hardball they would have insisted that the first mosque in Switzerland could only be built the day after the first Christian cathedral opened for worship in Riyadh.

    i especially liked that last line. :D i stopped by du and, as you might expect, most there are upset with the swiss 'bigots' but i did note at least one poster pointing out churches are not allowed at all in saudi arabia.

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    "The Swiss have failed to give a clear signal for diversity, freedom of religion and human rights," said Omar Al-Rawi, integration representative of the Islamic Denomination in Austria, which said its reaction was "grief and deep disappointment."
    "The muslims have failed to give a clear signal for freedom of speech, freedom of expression and the basic rights of nations", said Sonnabend.

    "The reaction of grief and deep disappointment is nothing next to the carnage and death unleashed by the Religion of Peace™ and its moon-god adulating, homicidal worshippers" he added, noting that to date, no apology or reparations have ever been made to the families of the dead, no apology has been made to the nations whose embassies were torched.

    "In conclusion" he stated, refusing to take questions from the lying, liberal assed media "we will listen to such men when, and only when, we see a one million Muslim march in deep and heartfelt contrition over the actions of their murderous cohorts.

    "They protested over Iraq, they protest over Afghanistan, they screamed "Death to the West", yet when it comes to the heinous crimes of their fellow Muslims, all we ever hear is silence", he stated, raising over his head a sixteen inch thick computer printout of every Muslim terroristy action over the last thirty years.

    "The devotees of "diversity" can take its disappointment and shove it up their asses " he added."The day that every single one of those involved comes forward and admits their guilt, is the day when I will consider Mr Omar Al-Rawi's comments. Until that day, he can kindly go fuck himself with a fire hydrant."

    "That concludes this interview"
    Last edited by Sonnabend; 11-30-2009 at 01:44 AM.
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    Nice:D Send this to a few editors. As for the minarets; they are ugly as a sack full of butts. Made all the more so when you consider the beliefs and practices that it represents. I saw what tolerance of this virus did for Bosnia.
    Last edited by AmPat; 11-30-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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    Well, the Swiss aren't going to want to be visiting Dearborn anytime soon. A lot of buildings, not all of them mosques, have minarets on them. Bakeries, restaurants, stores, etc. None are bigger than the sanctuary of the local catholic churches, nor are they higher than the belltowers of the local churches.


    Our laws and constitution support free expression of religion, or, in this case, an cultural and religious architectural practice. The Swiss laws don't. I would hate to see some kind of limit being put on muslims, because sooner or later, those same limits will be applied to a christian church's construction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Well, the Swiss aren't going to want to be visiting Dearborn anytime soon. A lot of buildings, not all of them mosques, have minarets on them. Bakeries, restaurants, stores, etc. None are bigger than the sanctuary of the local catholic churches, nor are they higher than the belltowers of the local churches.


    Our laws and constitution support free expression of religion, or, in this case, an cultural and religious architectural practice. The Swiss laws don't. I would hate to see some kind of limit being put on muslims, because sooner or later, those same limits will be applied to a christian church's construction.
    I agree, to an extent; but there are reasonable restrictions on all our constitutional rights, restrictions best left to the states. And should the call to prayer issue from these minarets, there are certainly third parties affected; it's fair for the government to intervene.

    I'm against federally-imposed "freedom of religion." It's neither constitutional nor acceptable. Let there be isolated communities where Muslims are free to issue their calls to prayer; I do not want that in my backyard. The structures? Fine, but I should be able to expel them from my community if necessary.

    This isn't anti-Islamic sentiment. Half my family is Muslim. I don't particularly have respect for the religion, but I don't detest it or the people who follow it. By the same token, I would not mind a predominantly atheist community ousting churches--to them, Christianity may well represent violence. As a Christian, I disagree with them, but I do not think church steeples should be imposed on them, either. Those who really would apply a double-standard, requiring every community to recognize a "right" to freely build Christian churches while allowing them to excise Muslim ones, haven't a leg to stand on because they are inconsistent.

    As for Switzerland, Islam has had such a foul effect on Europe that their response is completely understandable and justifiable. Not every nation has our standards or our history, or is bound by the chains of our constitution (even supposing our constitution did require accommodation in every state). So long as the Muslims have the right to leave, they can do so.
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    I am against any concession being given to Muslims because of their religion. If a restaurant (Wendy's, Burger King, Hooters) has a uniform policy that includes caps and religious head coverings clash with it then the employer should be under no obligation to hire anyone who insists on wearing a head covering. If ID requirements require a full face photo (including the hair) then you don't get to drive. If you fast during Ramadan, I should not be required to set aside my ham sandwich.

    There are countries where Islamic practices are welcomed. Go live there. If you live here, you and only YOU are free to practice your religion however you wish but no laws or concessions should be expected. Not even your wife or daughter are obligated to follow your religion and if you think they should, go somewhere where it is already common practice. Not here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
    I am against any concession being given to Muslims because of their religion. If a restaurant (Wendy's, Burger King, Hooters) has a uniform policy that includes caps and religious head coverings clash with it then the employer should be under no obligation to hire anyone who insists on wearing a head covering. If ID requirements require a full face photo (including the hair) then you don't get to drive. If you fast during Ramadan, I should not be required to set aside my ham sandwich.

    There are countries where Islamic practices are welcomed. Go live there. If you live here, you and only YOU are free to practice your religion however you wish but no laws or concessions should be expected. Not even your wife or daughter are obligated to follow your religion and if you think they should, go somewhere where it is already common practice. Not here.

    I agree with you about most of what you say, I just think that our laws tolerate minarets without the practice being allowed as some kind of special accomodation. Not all are there to broadcast the call to prayer, some are just decorative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I agree with you about most of what you say, I just think that our laws tolerate minarets without the practice being allowed as some kind of special accomodation. Not all are there to broadcast the call to prayer, some are just decorative.
    It's my weakness but I think a pile of dog---- is more aesthetically pleasing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    It's my weakness but I think a pile of dog---- is more aesthetically pleasing.

    Some of the buildings are kind of cool-they were boring, 50s bank-style buildings. The newer buildings are different, and the minarets and other middle-eastern features are worked into a more streamlined, strip mall structure.

    The mosques in Dearborn are small, for the most part, except for the large one at Ford RD and Evergreen (which looks like something out of Arabian Nights). There is a mosque in Warren on Ryan RD and 12 Mile-it looks like an office building. If it wasn't for the sign, you wouldn't even know it was a mosque.

    The only place where the minarette has been a problem here is in Hamtramck, because that mosque wanted to broadcast the call to prayer. A compromise was eventually reached, that involved the volume level of the broadcast. Even in Hamtramck, there is a mix of different kinds of muslims. There are the Bosnians, who are pretty westernized. The women don't cover up, and usually just wear the hijab/scarf. Then there are the Yemenese and Somalians, who wear burkas. On top of that, Hamtramck has a lot of people from India/Bangledesh, who are hindus, and what's left of the original polish occupants.
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