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  1. #1 Government defeated three times over church gay plan 
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    A debate coming to the country in which you live.

    Ministers insisted their aim was only to clarify the Equality Bill and that the status quo would stay, but churches said it would create confusion.
    Peers voted by majorities of 38, 21 and seven against government amendments.
    The current law allows religious organisations to rule out some applicants on conscientious grounds.



    The government tried to amend the bill so that exemptions to equality provisions applied only to those whose jobs "wholly or mainly" involved taking part in services or rituals, or explaining the doctrines of religion.



    'Own convictions'

    But the churches argued that many clergy spend only some of their time in these roles and carry out administrative and other duties.
    During debates, both sides claimed they were defending the status quo, which allows religious organisations to reject candidates for particular roles on grounds such as gender, marital status and sexual orientation.

    The Archbishop of York, the Most Reverend John Sentamu, told peers: "You may feel that many churches and other religious organisations are wrong on matters of sexual ethics.



    "But, if religious freedom means anything it must mean that those are matters for the churches and other religious organisations to determine for themselves in accordance with their own convictions."
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  2. #2  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    This is the Church of England, a state-sponsored religious entity. Because the government forbids discrimination against gays, the church being their agent also must.

    Isn't separation of church and state a wonderful thing we have in the USA? I might disagree with you about what the legal rights of gays are, what the theological implications are of having ordained gay clergy in one's denomination, but I'll defend your church's right to preach what it believes and extend that preaching to it's hiring practices.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    This is the Church of England, a state-sponsored religious entity. Because the government forbids discrimination against gays, the church being their agent also must.

    Isn't separation of church and state a wonderful thing we have in the USA? I might disagree with you about what the legal rights of gays are, what the theological implications are of having ordained gay clergy in one's denomination, but I'll defend your church's right to preach what it believes and extend that preaching to it's hiring practices.
    Good point except we don't have seperation of Church and State. We have a Gov't prohibited from establishing a Church and barred from interfering in the free exercise of religion.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
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    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Good point except we don't have seperation of Church and State. We have a Gov't prohibited from establishing a Church and barred from interfering in the free exercise of religion.
    Stole my thunder....
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    Stole my thunder....
    We should all stand guard and fight liberal catch phrases and talking points when they surface. ;)
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Good point except we don't have seperation of Church and State. We have a Gov't prohibited from establishing a Church and barred from interfering in the free exercise of religion.
    Neither of which the government is good at doing...given the spread of Secular Humanism in public schools and the government impositions against free speech on private church property.
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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