Thread: Drugs

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  1. #1 Drugs 
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    I know many conservatives, especially those more of the Libertarian variety, espouse that we should decriminalize or all together legalize drugs--Marijuana in particular--But I have to ask why? I mean I know a ton of social conservatives don't support legalizing Marijuana or other drugs but there are many social libertarians yet staunch fiscal conservatives who support legalizing Marijuana and even in some cases other, stronger drugs.

    Now, don't get me wrong--I've tried Pot. Once, and hated it. I've drank, a few times, never really found it appealing. So it's not like I'm some anti-drug and alcohol person who hasn't at least tried. And no, I'm not for banning alcohol as we saw how well that went the last time.

    But why legalize Pot or other drugs? Sure there might be a monetary gain but one would be basically profiting another's misery, profiting off of jeopardizing one's health. And yes, there is the personal responsibility argument, both of these arguments being used for fast food (for example, a person against drugs being legalized because they are unhealthy will sometimes be confronted by libertarians or liberals with 'well fast food is unhealthy should we ban it too?')

    However, there is a grave difference between fast food and drugs. A person can eat all the junk food he or she desires yet it won't make them violent, paranoid, abusive, or otherwise dangerous or hostile. Fast food can't make someone hallucinate. Drugs can and in many cases, even 'benign' drugs like Marijuana do--and for many users that's the point of using them--to get 'High'.

    Now a junkie shooting up Heroin and dying in some gutterr on his own--That's his business. But I oppose drugs not because of how they directly affect the user, but how they effect the user's family, friends, etc. I say this as a child of a person who had/has substance abuse issues. Sure, for a person like my father, it's his ''personal choice'' to do the things he does; However, it wasn't my personal choice to be born his child nor was it my personal choice to live with the effects of his usage--I was forced to deal with it simply because I was born me.Horrible experiences, many a Holiday or Birthday ruined. Unlike fast food, drugs and alcohol in the wrong hands are weapons, weapons that can be used to hurt in many ways. I know because I've been on the receiving end.

    So why legalize drugs? I know this is a "Big Government" idea but my opinion or an idea anyway is that someone who has been arrested and convicted of a drug or alcohol related offense (particularly a drug related offense which has resulted in violence) at least three or more times over a five or ten year period should be sterilized. People who have a continuing abuse problem I don't think should have children. I'm not talking about a 18 year kid with a bag of pot on his first offense, I'm talking a history of arrests for possesion or long term addiction to hard drugs, or long-term alcoholics. If not sterilization, then I think people with a repeat history of drug related and/or violent offenses over a prolonged period should at least be subject to psychological evaluation of some sort before being allowed to procreate or tracking of some sort. Similar to the way convicted pedophiles are monitored state to state and have to report to the state before moving, etc.
    People say ''well, they have a disease, they need rehab'' yet the same people will say ''fuck rehabiliating rapists/murderers/etc" I think in a sense having a parent or family member with a substance abuse problem is in it's own way a rape it is for many children the end of innocence, and many children with a parent who has substance abuse has to sacrifice in some ways their childhood to bear the burdens of their parents' problems.

    I know even some social cons might disagree with me on this, but...I'll put it this way--If gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, why should repeat drug/alcohol offenders who have at least a five to ten year history of drug related problems, particularly those with violent offenses, be allowed to procreate? It isn't intended a limitation on the offender's freedom or a punishment but a protection--Why should a child, any child, be subjected to it? I know of quite a few Junkies who have had lifelong habits yet never been arrested and have slipped under the radar and yet have had kids and subjected them to their addiction. An addiction isn't something one MUST have or MUST do--there's something called self control. I don't believe drug or alcohol addiction is a disease; in some it may be a means of coping with stressors but for many it's simply a way to get "High" and they don't give a damn who they hurt in the process of attaining their high.

    It's similar to the Military way of thinking with regard to medical issues--A person with certain medical problems won't be enlisted not simply because of the risk their medical problem puts on them, if there is even any risk to them, but because of the risk they present to their fellow soldiers and even perhaps to their mission.
    Last edited by CaughtintheMiddle1990; 02-11-2010 at 10:56 AM.
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    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    I drink and I smoke - tobacco. And I'm unalterably opposed to legalizing illegal drugs. I've never used them. Period.

    "Medical" marijuana was just a camel's nose under the tent. It's nothing more than the beginning of a slippery slope. My position on that got me kicked off another board, oriented to Ford trucks of all things, because so many members smoked pot, and I got into many arguments about it.

    Claiming that it was necessary to relieve pain completely ignored the fact that THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is available in pill form by prescription. It was clear that they weren't interested in "relieving pain", but simply getting a higher high than mere alcohol provides. And they didn't care that marijuana causes genetic damage. Hint: anybody ever wonder about the increasing incidents of children needing mood altering drugs?

    Yes, I remember the drug addicted sixties and seventies.

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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    I drink and I smoke - tobacco. And I'm unalterably opposed to legalizing illegal drugs. I've never used them. Period.

    "Medical" marijuana was just a camel's nose under the tent. It's nothing more than the beginning of a slippery slope. My position on that got me kicked off another board, oriented to Ford trucks of all things, because so many members smoked pot, and I got into many arguments about it.

    Claiming that it was necessary to relieve pain completely ignored the fact that THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) is available in pill form by prescription. It was clear that they weren't interested in "relieving pain", but simply getting a higher high than mere alcohol provides. And they didn't care that marijuana causes genetic damage. Hint: anybody ever wonder about the increasing incidents of children needing mood altering drugs?
    Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.
    If it's a prescription drug, it shouldn't too expensive if one has insurance. Even many anti-anxiety pills, for example, aren't that expensive without insurance.
    What's the matter, it doesn't make you as high as the real thing?
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    I drink and I smoke - tobacco.
    How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph wiggum View Post
    How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

    :D
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    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Synthetic THC (the kind in pills) comes with many dangerous side effects that the natural form does not have (even when smoked), and - like most commercial drugs - is prohibitively expensive. Sorry, its not a sufficient substitute.
    You sound experienced........
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph wiggum View Post
    How do you drink tobacco? :eek:

    :D
    Did you get fooled by the hyphen? I drink vodka........:D

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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaughtintheMiddle1990 View Post
    If it's a prescription drug, it shouldn't too expensive if one has insurance. Even many anti-anxiety pills, for example, aren't that expensive without insurance.
    What's the matter, it doesn't make you as high as the real thing?
    I don't know bout you, but in my experience plenty of drugs are prohibitively expensive, even with insurance. If one needs several meds, it adds up very quickly.

    In the case of THC - its cheap and easy to attain in its natural form, and is often more effective - or least more effective over a certain range of cases than its synthetic (and expensive) counterpart.
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  9. #9  
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    But in regards to the OP:

    But why legalize Pot or other drugs? Sure there might be a monetary gain but one would be basically profiting another's misery, profiting off of jeopardizing one's health. And yes, there is the personal responsibility argument, both of these arguments being used for fast food (for example, a person against drugs being legalized because they are unhealthy will sometimes be confronted by libertarians or liberals with 'well fast food is unhealthy should we ban it too?')
    The reasons for legalization are numerous, and compelling - here are a few:

    * Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders
    * There is a tremendous opportunity cost associated with drug offenses - our police resources could be used for more serious and troubling crime problems.
    * In our zeal to stamp out drugs, civil liberties are eroded by unreasonable laws - many of which would be found unconstitutional outside the context of the "drug war" (especially when it comes to seizure laws).
    * Drug laws are ineffective at reducing drug use anyways.
    * Leaving such moral issues to personal liberty is the consistent small government, libertarian and conservative position.
    * Its inconsistent to have legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco while drugs like pot, mdma and cocaine remain illegal.
    * If someone commits a crime or injustice while under the effects of a drug, we do not need drug laws to punish them - laws against the act in question work just fine.

    It all boils down to this:

    * Drug laws come at a heavy cost to society, and none of their benefits surpass that cost.
    Last edited by wilbur; 02-11-2010 at 04:08 PM.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    But in regards to the OP:



    The reasons for legalization are numerous, and compelling - here are a few:

    * Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders
    * There is a tremendous opportunity cost associated with drug offenses - our police resources could be used for more serious and troubling crime problems.
    * In our zeal to stamp out drugs, civil liberties are eroded by unreasonable laws - many of which would be found unconstitutional outside the context of the "drug war" (especially when it comes to seizure laws).
    * Drug laws are ineffective at reducing drug use anyways.
    * Leaving such moral issues to personal liberty is the consistent small government, libertarian and conservative position.
    * Its inconsistent to have legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco while drugs like pot, mdma and cocaine remain illegal.
    * If someone commits a crime or injustice while under the effects of a drug, we do not need drug laws to punish them - laws against the act in question work just fine.
    1. Could you please provide numbers on how many non-violent drug offenders there are in our prison systems?
    2. Throughout high school, I know many "low grade" drug users who were given a slap on the wrist when busted. Police never actively sought them, and as far as I could tell no significant resources were spent on catching them. Could you provide numbers on how much is "wasted" on getting those non-violent offenders?
    3. What civil liberties of yours have been eroded?
    4. They've kept me from doing them.
    5. Our Constution provides our government with the powers to ensure national defence. Since a huge amount of drug money goes towards funding things like terrorism, or violent crimes, I view it as being in their power to combat the drug trade.
    6. Alchohal and Tobacco production has been a staple production of our national economy since the beginning. Georgian tobacco farmers don't give money to Al Qaeda.
    7. Yet you advocate the Hate Crimes Bill?
    Last edited by djones520; 02-11-2010 at 04:20 PM.
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