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  1. #1 A Primer on Muslim Anger and Hatred Towards West 
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    A wrote this as a primer on Muslim anger towards the West. It is well known that former President George W. Bush is the cause of most Muslim anger, along with fellow racists such as John Howard, former Prime Miniser of Australia and Stephen Harper, now Prime Minister of Canada. But it does have a longer history.

    During the pre-Muslim era, the wanton and vicious habits of the desert people of the area from Egypt through Saudi Arabia is well known, and memorialized in the oral history contained in the Bible. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah, of the binding of Isaac (by negative implication the ritual child sacrifice among neighboring peoples), the purposeless plugging with sand of water wells dug by Abraham and Isaac are but some examples. Not to be forgotten is Amelek, who specialized in "fighting" stragglers who were too tired to fight, or were wounded. The wickedness and idolatry prevalant in these areas, along with sexual perversion and violence, existed well before Islam and the fault for them must be laid at the door, not of Islam, but of local "cultures".

    Islam's extremely violent start is also well known. Their virtually unhindered spread from the Mecca area to the Atlantic and to the borders of modern India occurred largely at the point of a sword. There were, during those early years, some constructive developments.

    In many areas, intellectually, they were ahead of Europe, then in the "Dark Ages". They were more tolerant of Jews and Christians than Christians were of Jews and Muslims. At least "dhimmitude" allowed survival, under conditions of degradation and financial servitude.

    Their predatory habits on the trade of other peoples is also well-known. One of the great impetuses for the development of shipping was the need to avoid travel on the "Silk Road", which went through mortally dangerous Muslim lands en route to the Far East. Later, the Barbary Coast pirates and pirates off modern-day Somalia, all Musims, made theft from Europeans (and eventually Americans) and the "white slave" trade an art form. Then as now, it took the Americans to crack down rather than pay tribute.

    Since then, the Barbary Coast Pirates have morphed into OPEC (all of the money benefits the rulers, not the people), the UN, and disaster-milking. Remeber those pitiful faces on ads for charities after the Indonesia tsunami and the Pakistan earthquake? How much rebuilding do you think has really happened? Then as now, there are producers, and there are extorters and takers. After the Holocaust, an undisputed atrocity, its victims picked themselves up, and are now valuable contributors to the world wherever they live.

    Did (do) they have cause to be "angry" with the butchers that killed 6,000,000 of them? Where are their suicide bombers? Where are the Americans attacking bazaars in Araby after September 11? Where's the anger of the non-Muslim world against Muslims? And where is the reaction to Iran's Ahmadinejad statement that the Sept. 11 attacks are a 'big lie' (link). Instead of anger, you see Barack Obama going to Cairo to praise the Muslim world, prattling about "negotiations" and undermining his own counry, the one that elected him President.
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  2. #2  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    There's so much going on in terms of ideologies and poltiical complexities and sectarianism that is very tough to get a hold on what is going on and why we are targeted.

    This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

    Still, the fact that America essentially writes blank checks for Israel to commit what many call crimes against humanity (I believe it is currently still Iraeli Apartheid Awareness Week) can't simply be overlooked, it is a very primary reason that America is hated by middle easterners.

    This fairly tale way of looking at the world of "good guys vs bad guys" gets us nowhere and can hardly even be called thought at all.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.
    Really? How many non-Muslims live in Mecca? How many Christian Churches or Jewish Synagogues are there in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Egypt? Of course, you know there are Mosques and Churches in Israel.

    Islam, as it is being promoted openly in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, and numerous North African nations, is a militant religio-political system, with the emphasis upon the political . Where Islam rules freedom outside of Islamic law is nonexistent.
    At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that news is not something that happens to other people. ~ Robert Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    There's so much going on in terms of ideologies and poltiical complexities and sectarianism that is very tough to get a hold on what is going on and why we are targeted.

    This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.

    Still, the fact that America essentially writes blank checks for Israel to commit what many call crimes against humanity (I believe it is currently still Iraeli Apartheid Awareness Week) can't simply be overlooked, it is a very primary reason that America is hated by middle easterners.

    This fairly tale way of looking at the world of "good guys vs bad guys" gets us nowhere and can hardly even be called thought at all.
    Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  5. #5  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?
    Islamic Theocracy is a fascist-esque reaction to the void left by the collapse of the soviet union and the systematic dismanteling of middle eastern democracies.

    People seem to forget that Afghanistan used to have an impressive record of western liberal social policies (at least when compared to todays), in fact it was a leader in the region in terms of civil rights policies.

    However, these were being led by soviets so the United States actively funded and armed resistence groups to fight the soviets. The resulting void left an opportunity to the fascist-esque Radical Islamic Theocracy groups to take over afghanistan and begin to fight US.

    This same effect occured after WWI in germany, the void in their broken country was the perfect petri-dish for the Nazi party to rise up.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Can you list for me the freedoms under a Islamic Theocracy that both men and woman are allowed to do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    NO
    Fixed! :D
    At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that news is not something that happens to other people. ~ Robert Heinlein

    You Say The Battle Is Over
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Islamic Theocracy is a fascist-esque reaction to the void left by the collapse of the soviet union and the systematic dismanteling of middle eastern democracies.

    People seem to forget that Afghanistan used to have an impressive record of western liberal social policies (at least when compared to todays), in fact it was a leader in the region in terms of civil rights policies.

    However, these were being led by soviets so the United States actively funded and armed resistence groups to fight the soviets. The resulting void left an opportunity to the fascist-esque Radical Islamic Theocracy groups to take over afghanistan and begin to fight US.

    This same effect occured after WWI in germany, the void in their broken country was the perfect petri-dish for the Nazi party to rise up.
    You stated
    This idea that "they hate freedom" is dumbed down puppy chow for the laziest thinkers among us.
    And I asked my question. Their actions demonstrate that allowing freedom within the borders of their countries is not something they wish to make a stab at.

    Also, I'll note that you did not answer my question.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  8. #8  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    There's a HUGE difference between not allowing freedom in a country you control and actively crusading against it as if it were a Real Thing that threatened you.
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  9. #9  
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    I admit that they do not agree with "freedom" (if we use this word in terms of civil rights and social justice), but that is not why they are fighting us.

    Why would they give 2 shits about what our women dress like?

    If they attacked us because they hate our civil liberties or moral looseness (according to their fundamentalist views), shouldn't they be launching a full assault on Denmark and Amsterdam?
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  10. #10  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    I admit that they do not agree with "freedom" (if we use this word in terms of civil rights and social justice), but that is not why they are fighting us.

    Why would they give 2 shits about what our women dress like?

    If they attacked us because they hate our civil liberties or moral looseness (according to their fundamentalist views), shouldn't they be launching a full assault on Denmark and Amsterdam?
    It would seem that they are attempting to do just that by immigrating more and more Muslims in to those countries. When countries like Denmark try to pass laws to make themselves less attractive to Muslims, the shouts religious discrimination fill the air. I think that what Islam couldn't do via war they are attempting to do via assimilation.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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