06-17-2010, 05:18 AM
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Florida. The Cuban Part.
I actually had to read parts of Animal Liberation in college, and honestly didn't like him from that point on. So you're assuming what you think that I know about him. And you're forgetting that in many ways, philosophy is pretty subjective. . . .your calm, reasonable, non-dogmatic is my "Kiss my ass".
And throwing Bill O'Reilly as a pacifying factor? REALLY, Wilbur? REALLY? I just want to smack you for those two assumptions alone. (yeah, I saw the Christian sources. . . there are disabilities rights groups that hate this guy too... THAT'S actually who I think of when it comes to negative press about Peter Singer)
~QC"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)
Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
06-17-2010, 04:06 PM
I always wanted to have at least one child, but I never got married.
It's funny-the teenaged girls I work with ask me if I have kids. I tell them, no, I've never been married. They look at me like I'm from another planet, not just another generation. Some will even say, "that doesn't mean you can't have babies", to which I usually respond "can and should are two very different words".
06-17-2010, 06:17 PM
Singer is just the latest in a string of nihilists who can (and do) end up justifying the worst impulses in the the worst men.--Odysseus
Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.
Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
SonnabendGuest06-18-2010, 10:37 AMSinger is just the latest in a string of nihilists who can (and do) end up justifying the worst impulses in the the worst men.
06-18-2010, 12:32 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
Secondly, I think you need to read him more carefully. He doesn't endorse bestiality, at least not that I have seen. He's raised questions about it, in an open-minded way - but that's not endorsement, that's how good tempered philosophers go about reasoned inquiry. They don't live in the world of pop journalism and politics where sides have to be dogmatically chosen and scathing polemics have to be written. If you approach philosophy that sort of polemical mindset, you're going to get it very badly wrong.
As it is, bestiality is pretty tricky. Most of us certainly feel that its wrong, or at least a sign of dysfunction. Its just really hard to articulate why, aside from just asserting so. Good philosopher's usually like to go beyond bare assertions.
He doesn't deny that he thinks that his life is worth living. It's the rest of ours that he is willing to consider less than justified. For example, Singer has written that arguments for or against abortion should be based on the weight of the preferences of a mother against those of the fetus, and that a capacity to experience suffering or satisfaction is a prerequisite to having preferences, which a fetus, at least up to around eighteen weeks, lacks (in his view, it has no capacity to suffer or feel satisfaction), so it cannot hold any preferences, and thus does not warrant consideration in the abortion debate.
Taken to its logical conclusion, this premise extends to newborn babies, who also lack what Singer considers the essential characteristics of personhoodâ€”"rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness." Consequently, he has concluded that "killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living."
What he does not say, is that its OK to just kill a baby for the heck of it. Again, I think there are fundamental problems with your approach to philosophy. Bad unwarranted assumptions cause you to make straw-man arguments.
This further applies to adults whose capacity to exhibit the "essential characteristcs of personhood" has been reduced by disease or injury may also be killed.
He argues, in cases where adults have completely lost the capacity to exhibit the essential characteristics of personhood, that removing a feeding tube, respirator, etc is conceptually the same actively killing the being. So he argues that we might as well use more efficient, direct means to quickly kill the person.
These "essential characteristics" are, of course, highly subjective and hardly quantifiable. How do you measure rationality? Autonomy? Self-consciousness? You cannot, but by making these the criteria by which we decide that life has value, Singer creates a paradigm in which anyone can be said to lack those attributes.
I'll agree that it is very hard to come up with a criteria for personhood that is exhaustive (that is, it includes all persons), and that excludes all non-persons, but that is OK. It's not very hard to come up with criteria that includes *only* non-persons. For grey areas, we err on the side of personhood. If we accidentally include a few non-persons in the net, so be it.
It is not that far from the newborn baby to the toddler, to the disabled adult. This is the involuntary euthanasia argument by which eugenicists justified the sterilization and execution of those that they considered inferior, which invariably leads to atrocity.
Last edited by wilbur; 06-18-2010 at 01:03 PM.
06-18-2010, 12:47 PMDeplorably Proud To Be An American
06-19-2010, 09:31 AM"What this country needs are more unemployed politicians."
"Liberals are the type of people who go on safari and wonder why they can't get out and pet the lions..."- warpig
06-19-2010, 06:36 PM
If Singer wants to snuff himself for the good of animals/the Earth / Universe, I'm not going to stop.
But to suggest that we all die in a pool of our own vomit, is beyond stupid; Truth be told Singer would most likely run for cover if his existence were in danger just like every other lifeform on the planet.
How do I know, because he is still alive.
No where in our planet's history has any species ever committed mass suicide; I think the last T-Rex lifted his claw to the Universe, gave it the finger and told cosmos to f*ck itself.
Guys like Singer want us to party till we die, I'll remember to toss my invite in the trash, thank you.CU's Paranormal Expert.
Keep your powder dry, your sword sharp and your wits intact.
06-20-2010, 12:30 AM
Last edited by DU+NU_Reject; 06-20-2010 at 12:33 AM.VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter" (Yes I plagiarized this as well)
DU_Reject:Proud American, staunch anti-socialist, Secular Conservative, two-time bannee from DU!
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