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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The real question is why a smart military man would seriously believe that a 'Rolling Stone' story would be a good idea.

    I mean, come on.....even if he and his aides never said anything critical of the Obama administration, why open up to magazine that built its reputation on dopers and draft dodgers? It doesn't make any sense.
    He voted for O Blah Blah. He isn't "smart."
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    And how would a full pull out - turning the country back over to the taliban and Al Queda - benefit us?
    If we can not win a war in 3 or 4 years, we should not fight it. 10 years is enough. The cost has been too high with our boys dying and spending billions. For what....a corrupt government and a bunch of lazy Afghans.
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  3. #13  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    If we can not win a war in 3 or 4 years, we should not fight it. 10 years is enough. The cost has been too high with our boys dying and spending billions. For what....a corrupt government and a bunch of lazy Afghans.
    And what would the cost be in American lives if we withdraw?
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  4. #14  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right-Wing Conspirator View Post
    I would have told Dr. Zero to blow it out his ass, which would have made him a hero, resigned, and run against Dr. Zero in 2012.

    ...but that's just me...
    If he's a Democrat (he claims to have voted for Obama), then he would run on that ticket. I'd just as soon not have a hawkish Democrat who will still tax and spend us into oblivion on the ticket.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The real question is why a smart military man would seriously believe that a 'Rolling Stone' story would be a good idea.

    I mean, come on.....even if he and his aides never said anything critical of the Obama administration, why open up to magazine that built its reputation on dopers and draft dodgers? It doesn't make any sense.
    He may not have had a choice. We often get ordered to provide media with access, and no matter how adversarial they are, we have to comply. That being said, you have to assume that Rolling Stone is the enemy. He should have known that they would paint him as the big, bad general who is making their sainted Obama look like a wimp and taken steps to protect himself. First, say nothing that can be construed as anything other than respectful of the chain of command. Second, make sure that all interviews are recorded by your staff in full and and have them produce transcripts so that anything taken out of context can be explained. Third, demand advance copies of the article for fact-checking. Identify any false or misleading content and call them on it. If they fail to correct the article, then go to your chain of command and make sure that they know that you didn't say what they claim, bring the transcripts and audio files and be ready to fight. If his Public Affairs Officer didn't strongly recommend that, the PAO ought to be fired.
    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    If we can not win a war in 3 or 4 years, we should not fight it. 10 years is enough. The cost has been too high with our boys dying and spending billions. For what....a corrupt government and a bunch of lazy Afghans.
    The Cold War took forty years, but defeat would have been worse. The length of the fight is part of the equation, but the cost of defeat is the bigger part. Defeat or premature withdrawal from Afghanistan would result in the return of the Taliban and al Qaeda and the resumption of external terror attacks on CONUS.
    Afghanistan is one of those situations where you really have no good choices. We couldn't allow them to harbor Bin Laden after 9/11, if for no other reason than they would have launched more attacks, and we didn't really have any use for the country after we went in. Ultimately, the only really viable COA comes from Aliens: Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    --Odysseus
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    McChrystal is a warrior General in the vein of men like Patton, MacArthur or Admiral Nimitz; you know, men who actually get shit done. Corporate Generals like Jones sit their happy asses in cushy chairs at the Pentagon while real warriors are out bleeding and dying in some God-forsaken shithole like Afghanistan.

    First BP, now McChrystal. Wonder who's ass the Boy Wonder is going to aim to kick next?
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Dan D. Doty's Avatar
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    I see this as just another step to transform the US Military.

    If DADT is removed, then many in the service today will re-up, those who can retire will.

    This new thing with Gen. McChrystal is to get the officer corp to either resign, or get in line with admistration.

    The jackels who followed Obama to Washington want a military that is loyal to their beliefs and ideology.
    They want a military that obeys orders that normally would be unlawful or, goes against their oath of defending the Constituion.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    McChrystal is a warrior General in the vein of men like Patton, MacArthur or Admiral Nimitz; you know, men who actually get shit done. Corporate Generals like Jones sit their happy asses in cushy chairs at the Pentagon while real warriors are out bleeding and dying in some God-forsaken shithole like Afghanistan.

    First BP, now McChrystal. Wonder who's ass the Boy Wonder is going to aim to kick next?
    I thought McChrystal is the one who handcuffed his troops in Afganistan with his "diplomatic" rules of engagement. "Don't fire your weapons if there are any civilians in the area." That has cost us the lives of I don't know how many soldiers. A soldiers job is to kick ass, kill, and tear shit up. A soldiers job is NOT to make the civilians they're trying to liberate feel good about America. That's what diplomats are for. Let Obama go over there and apologize after the fact, but let the boys do what we've spent millions training them to do.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    If we can not win a war in 3 or 4 years, we should not fight it. 10 years is enough. The cost has been too high with our boys dying and spending billions. For what....a corrupt government and a bunch of lazy Afghans.
    Edit: Eh... I'll just let Odysseus do the talking. As always he's much more elequent then I am.
    Last edited by djones520; 06-22-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The Cold War took forty years, but defeat would have been worse. The length of the fight is part of the equation, but the cost of defeat is the bigger part. Defeat or premature withdrawal from Afghanistan would result in the return of the Taliban and al Qaeda and the resumption of external terror attacks on CONUS.
    Afghanistan is one of those situations where you really have no good choices. We couldn't allow them to harbor Bin Laden after 9/11, if for no other reason than they would have launched more attacks, and we didn't really have any use for the country after we went in. Ultimately, the only really viable COA comes from Aliens: Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    I am all for spraying/killing the poppy fields and nuking the border and leaving. I do not know why the US has not paid the farmers and killed off the money supply for the Taliban's dope. Would have been a drop in the bucket to the subsides we pay farmers here to not plant certain crops. Our policy is just screwed up. We are fighting an enemy that does not wear uniforms, that blend in with the natives and to top it off permission is required to hit certain targets or kill OBL. It is just a fucked police action if you ask me.
    Last edited by lacarnut; 06-22-2010 at 03:12 PM.
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  10. #20  
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    The night before the general is scheduled to visit Sgt. Arroyo’s platoon for the memorial, I arrive at Combat Outpost JFM to speak with the soldiers he had gone on patrol with. JFM is a small encampment, ringed by high blast walls and guard towers. Almost all of the soldiers here have been on repeated combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and have seen some of the worst fighting of both wars. But they are especially angered by Ingram’s death. His commanders had repeatedly requested permission to tear down the house where Ingram was killed, noting that it was often used as a combat position by the Taliban. But due to McChrystal’s new restrictions to avoid upsetting civilians, the request had been denied. “These were abandoned houses,” fumes Staff Sgt. Kennith Hicks. “Nobody was coming back to live in them.”

    One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”
    I applaud him for saying what he thought, but there's a reason Obama has allowed him to lead the war in Afganistan.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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