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  1. #21  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    I applaud him for saying what he thought, but there's a reason Obama has allowed him to lead the war in Afganistan.
    It was dumb. Plain and simple. The only reason I can see a Four Star doing this is he wanted a way out without saying "I quit".
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    It was dumb. Plain and simple. The only reason I can see a Four Star doing this is he wanted a way out without saying "I quit".
    In my brief stint in the Navy, it was widely known that the dumbest people on the boat were commissioned.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    I thought McChrystal is the one who handcuffed his troops in Afganistan with his "diplomatic" rules of engagement.
    Progressive Discipline ROE has been in place, at least in the Marine Corps Case, since 1999. McChrystal works with what he's told to do from above, namely the Commander in Chief back home and the war gamers who can make these half-assed decisions while our boys die in the field because of them. Military in the U.S. has always been Political, from the times of George Washington fighting with Congress for more men during the Revolution. It's just never been this bad.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    Progressive Discipline ROE has been in place, at least in the Marine Corps Case, since 1999. McChrystal works with what he's told to do from above, namely the Commander in Chief back home and the war gamers who can make these half-assed decisions while our boys die in the field because of them. Military in the U.S. has always been Political, from the times of George Washington fighting with Congress for more men during the Revolution. It's just never been this bad.
    Amen to that, brother. There was a time when you used what your men were capable of score political points, now you handcuff them and say, "We can't win!!!" to get out of doing what's needed.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    to get out of doing what's needed.
    There in lies the sticking post and I want to highlight you on it because you don't know how right on you are. We lack the intestinal fortitude to make the tough call and do what the hell it takes to win this war. Our men and women on the ground don't. Our battlefield commanders don't. Our pencil-neck politicians do.

    What would Patton do in this situation? Shit, what did we do when we found Werwolf guerrillas in WWII? We lined them up against a wall and shot them, that's what. Until we have the stomach to unleash our boys to go murder these lousy terrorist bastards, more good young men and women are going to die for a hellish nation that Alexander couldn't even take.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    There in lies the sticking post and I want to highlight you on it because you don't know how right on you are. We lack the intestinal fortitude to make the tough call and do what the hell it takes to win this war. Our men and women on the ground don't. Our battlefield commanders don't. Our pencil-neck politicians do.

    What would Patton do in this situation? Shit, what did we do when we found Werwolf guerrillas in WWII? We lined them up against a wall and shot them, that's what. Until we have the stomach to unleash our boys to go murder these lousy terrorist bastards, more good young men and women are going to die for a hellish nation that Alexander couldn't even take.
    That's why I am for getting out of that shit-hole country. No sense bleeding blood, guts and money for a bunch of broke dick US and Afghan politicians that will not allow the military to go all out to destroy the enemy.
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  7. #27  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Well the story now is he has resigned so I guess POTUS gets to pick someone else.
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  8. #28 McChrystal resigning. 
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Drudge has it unofficially that he's offered his resignation.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...s-resignation/
    Last edited by djones520; 06-22-2010 at 06:19 PM.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  9. #29  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Is it me, or does this picture pretty much sum it all up? LTG McChrystal looks apalled and Obama looks like a man without a teleprompter.


    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Edit: Eh... I'll just let Odysseus do the talking. As always he's much more elequent then I am.
    Three compliments in one day. I'm all ferklempt! Talk among yourselves. I'll be fine. :o
    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    I am all for spraying/killing the poppy fields and nuking the border and leaving. I do not know why the US has not paid the farmers and killed off the money supply for the Taliban's dope. Would have been a drop in the bucket to the subsides we pay farmers here to not plant certain crops. Our policy is just screwed up. We are fighting an enemy that does not wear uniforms, that blend in with the natives and to top it off permission is required to hit certain targets or kill OBL. It is just a fucked police action if you ask me.
    The poppy crop is one of the few cash crops in Afghanistan. Killing it off simply impoverishes the farmers and drives them into the Taliban's arms. In fact, one of the major problems is that the government there does destroy some of the poppy crop, while keeping the plots that its ministers own exempt from the culling. Buying it up doesn't do much good, either, as there just isn't sufficient demand for morphine globally, and the paste will still end up in heroin.

    Afghanistan is one of the most backward, misbegotten hellholes in the world, and it has been that way since Alexander crossed it on his way to India. But, unfortunately, in the age of the internet, international air travel and rapid proliferation of ideologies, backward, misbegotten hellholes breed the kind of men who board airliners with box cutters and murder people by the thousands because they feel that Allah isn't getting all of the respect that he should be from Americans who were previously providing them with massive aid.

    The only ones who have ever succeeded in subjugating the afghans were the Mongols and the Macedonians. Alexander did it by waging a war of savage counterinsurgency and then ended up marrying the daughter of one of the more prominent warlords, appointing him to run the place in his name, and then getting out of the country before the rest of the warlords rose up. The Mongols, in the words of Gibbon, created a desert and called it peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    There in lies the sticking post and I want to highlight you on it because you don't know how right on you are. We lack the intestinal fortitude to make the tough call and do what the hell it takes to win this war. Our men and women on the ground don't. Our battlefield commanders don't. Our pencil-neck politicians do.

    What would Patton do in this situation? Shit, what did we do when we found Werwolf guerrillas in WWII? We lined them up against a wall and shot them, that's what. Until we have the stomach to unleash our boys to go murder these lousy terrorist bastards, more good young men and women are going to die for a hellish nation that Alexander couldn't even take.

    You raise a great point. What would Patton do? We can't really use the post WWII constabulary period as an example. For one thing, the Werewolf guerrillas never materialized into a major threat. With the exception of a few fanatical SS types, most Germans were perfectly happy to go back to what was left of their homes and spend the rest of their lives fabricating stories about not having been Nazis during the war. So, we can't extrapolate from Patton's last campaign during WWII.

    The fact is, Patton never had to face a major insurgency, unless you count his time on the Mexican border, chasing Pancho Villa under Pershing, and they never caught Villa. So, what would he have done in Afghanistan? Certainly, Patton, the classicist, would have studied the campaigns of Alexander and Genghis Khan and drawn the appropriate lessons, which boiled down to being as ruthless as your adversary, and destroying him so that neither he nor his children can stand against you, but those lessons would have been a problem for Patton.

    During the siege of Samarkand, Genghis Khan drew half the garrison outside the fortifications and destroyed them in combat. within a few days, all but about 2,000 soldiers surrendered, with the last few holed up in the citadel. Genghis took the city and then executed every soldier that had taken arms against him, despite his promise to honor their surrender. The people of the city were driven out into the adjacent plain, where they were slaughtered. It was here that the Mongols erected the pyramid of heads that terrorized the world for centuries after. Patton, who was a chivalrous commander, would have been apalled by such tactics, as would almost any American, and would never have stood for the deliberate mass slaughter of an enemy's women and children as part of a campaign of terror.

    That leaves us with Alexander. After years of bitter attrition warfare, Alexander managed to strike a single blow that temporarily scattered the Afghan tribes and killed their leadership, but it was only temporary. He knew that they would eventually re-form under another general and the war would start again, so he picked the most powerful of the remaining chiefs, presented him with an offer of marriage to his daughter, Roxanna (who he had captured a few days previously) and a promise to support him as his surrogate in Afghanistan. The chieftain had no problem suppressing the other tribes, and was happy to take charge as the father-in-law of the great conqueror. Alexander left mountains of cash to sustain his ally and left for India, and the peace held until the next nation passed through.

    So, there you have it. Our options are genocide or the raising of a local strongman and entrusting him to keep the peace. Neither of these options is viable. Americans won't stand for genocide unless something truly heinous provokes us, something so offensive that it even silences our liberals for the duration. If Bin Laden were to nuke Los Angeles or New York, you might see it, but that's about what it would take. And the strongman option only works until the inevitable insurgency topples him.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  10. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Is it me, or does this picture pretty much sum it all up? LTG McChrystal looks apalled and Obama looks like a man without a teleprompter.



    Three compliments in one day. I'm all ferklempt! Talk among yourselves. I'll be fine. :o

    The poppy crop is one of the few cash crops in Afghanistan. Killing it off simply impoverishes the farmers and drives them into the Taliban's arms. In fact, one of the major problems is that the government there does destroy some of the poppy crop, while keeping the plots that its ministers own exempt from the culling. Buying it up doesn't do much good, either, as there just isn't sufficient demand for morphine globally, and the paste will still end up in heroin.

    .

    So, there you have it. Our options are genocide or the raising of a local strongman and entrusting him to keep the peace. Neither of these options is viable. Americans won't stand for genocide unless something truly heinous provokes us, something so offensive that it even silences our liberals for the duration. If Bin Laden were to nuke Los Angeles or New York, you might see it, but that's about what it would take. And the strongman option only works until the inevitable insurgency topples him.
    Aren't the Taliban funding their terrorists activities with the drug trade. If so, destroy the crops and pay off the farmers. I know that has been discussed. Sounds like a good idea to me. American soldiers are being killed in Afghan. because the dope money is used to buy arms.

    Do you think it is possible to defeat the enemy if we went all out militarily but did not use nukes? If the answer is no, we need to get out now.
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