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  1. #11  
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    I only saw excerpts from the article, but what was highlighted seemed no way near bad enough to warrant firing. Did anyone read the whole thing? Perhaps this is a smoke screen to cover the worsening situation in that country.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I only saw excerpts from the article, but what was highlighted seemed no way near bad enough to warrant firing. Did anyone read the whole thing? Perhaps this is a smoke screen to cover the worsening situation in that country.
    It is bad alright. I watched 2 retired military on Fox give a grade on the status of this shit-hole country a 2 out of 10 with 10 being the highest. We need to get out of that fucked up, corrupt, country before more American lives are lost. Bomb the shit out of their strongholds and leave. If that involves going outside of Afghan, tough shit.
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  3. #13  
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    Richly deserved.

    One of the first things you learn in boot camp is not to do something like what McChrystal did. Rolling Stone magazine falls nowhere in the military chain of command. Very unprofessional, and the man should have known better. If I were Obama, I would have fired him over the phone.
    Nothing helps a bad mood like spreading it around.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I only saw excerpts from the article, but what was highlighted seemed no way near bad enough to warrant firing. Did anyone read the whole thing? Perhaps this is a smoke screen to cover the worsening situation in that country.
    It's insubordination, and he should have known better. The old retired military guys I know have been emailing and Facebooking about it today. They can't stand Obama, but they all agree that McChrystal screwed the pooch.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    Richly deserved.

    One of the first things you learn in boot camp is not to do something like what McChrystal did. Rolling Stone magazine falls nowhere in the military chain of command. Very unprofessional, and the man should have known better. If I were Obama, I would have fired him over the phone.
    Probably the first thing I've ever agreed with you on.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Doubt it. A lot of great SOF Officers will be saying that he got what he asked for.
    There's a RIF coming, so I suspect that it will be done for a lot of us, and not just the SOF guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    It is bad alright. I watched 2 retired military on Fox give a grade on the status of this shit-hole country a 2 out of 10 with 10 being the highest. We need to get out of that fucked up, corrupt, country before more American lives are lost. Bomb the shit out of their strongholds and leave. If that involves going outside of Afghan, tough shit.
    Give it a rest, will you? Retired military talking heads told us that we were going to take massive casualties during Desert Storm. We didn't. Afghanistan is a crappy situation, but we don't have the luxury of running with our tails between our legs. We have no choice but to keep fighting and maybe, just maybe, if we can get the support that we need here in CONUS, we might just be able to accomplish something over there, but as long as we're willing to do the job, the least that you can do is stop telling us how afraid you are that we're doomed and stop pissing on our mission. It's really getting old. In fact, you're starting to sound like Gator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I only saw excerpts from the article, but what was highlighted seemed no way near bad enough to warrant firing. Did anyone read the whole thing? Perhaps this is a smoke screen to cover the worsening situation in that country.
    I downloaded the article here. What struck me was that almost all of the critical comments were (a) directed at subordinate personnel in the administration (Biden, Jones, Holbrooke, Eikenberry, etc., which is still actionable under Article 88 of the UCMJ if the language is deemed "contemptuous") and (b) were made by GEN McChrystal's staff, with nothing directly attributed to him by the author of the article except for a few comments which were clearly not derogatory, but were critical of specific actions (like Eikenberry's leaking of a CYA memo). Also the tone of the article is downright nasty towards the military, but not Obama, who still gets the adoring treatment from Rolling Stone. For example, here's the description of Obama's performance on Afghanistan with my comments in blue italic parenthesis:

    When barack obama entered the Oval Office, he immediately (after over a year, that is) set out to deliver on his most important campaign promise on foreign policy: to refocus the war in Afghanistan on what led us to invade in the first place. “I want the American people to understand,” he announced in March 2009. “We have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan.”
    He ordered another 21,000 troops to Kabul (who were already scheduled to go, after dithering for three months after the request was made), the largest increase since the war began in 2001 (even if it was only two-thirds of what was requested, Obama was taking care of business, see?). Taking the advice of both the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he also fired Gen. David McKiernan – then the U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan (he trusted those fascists, man, and look what that got him) – and replaced him with a man he didn’t know and had met only briefly: Gen. Stanley McChrystal (so it wasn't his fault, he barely knew the man).
    And here is one of many loaded descriptions of the general:
    The next morning, McChrystal and his team gather to prepare for a speech he is giving at the École Militaire, a French military academy. The general prides himself on being sharper and ballsier than anyone else (not that he actually is, mind you), but his brashness comes with a price: Although McChrystal has been in charge of the war for only a year, in that short time he has managed to piss off almost everyone with a stake in the conflict (beginning with Rolling Stone, apparently).
    Here's one of their descriptions of the staff:
    The general’s staff is a handpicked collection of killers (well, yeah, that's what Soldiers do), spies (I believe the term is intel analysts), geniuses (well, someone had to give us access so that we could write this article), patriots (an evil word at Rolling Stone), political operators (Civil Affairs, not to be confused with politicians, who are another breed entirely) and outright maniacs (it's the military, what else would Rolling Stone call them?). There’s a former head of British Special Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat veterans and counterinsurgency experts (a lawyer? Now that's insulting!).
    The section that goes into the general's bio emphasizes his heavy drinking and disciplinary issues at West Point, and downplays or dismisses his leadership qualities. For example:

    He also set a manic pace for his staff, becoming legendary for sleeping four hours a night, running seven miles each morning, and eating one meal a day. (In the month I spend around the general, I witness him eating only once.) It’s a kind of superhuman narrative that has built up around him, a staple in almost every media profile (we can't have the media treating a public figure as superhuman, can we? Unless it's Obama, of course, then it's okay), as if the ability to go without sleep and food translates into the possibility of a man single-handedly winning the war (when we all know that it's really the ability to decompress with a few rounds of golf during a crisis).
    His stint at the Kennedy School of Government is dismissed as his "improv[ing] his inside game" rather than having been accepted into one of the Army's premier scholarship opportunities. Every move that he made is snidely derided as careerism, and his support for the chain of command prior to Obama is cited as grounds for being tossed out, including a slanderous accusation that the general participated in a cover up of Pat Tillman's death. It's such an obvious hatchet job that I'm surprised that anyone is taking it seriously. For an officer of GEN McChrystal's caliber to be removed for something this blatantly biased and shoddy is a disgrace.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 06-23-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    McChrystal voted for Obama and deserves what he gets.
    Our resident swine is spot on. It's called being hoist by your own petard.
    "Our president delivered his State of the Union message to Congress. That is one of the things his contract calls for -- to tell congress the condition of the country. This message, as I say, is to Congress. The rest of the people know the condition of the country, for they live in it, but Congress has no idea what is going on in America, so the president has to tell 'em." ~ Will Rogers
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    It's insubordination, and he should have known better. The old retired military guys I know have been emailing and Facebooking about it today. They can't stand Obama, but they all agree that McChrystal screwed the pooch.
    Personally, I'd rather that our generals were good at generaling rather than public relations and media management. And by all accounts, McChrystal is a very good general.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00 View Post
    Personally, I'd rather that our generals were good at generaling rather than public relations and media management. And by all accounts, McChrystal is a very good general.
    Bam Bam disagrees, and who are we to question his impeccable judgment? Get with the program, m00. Geez.
    "Our president delivered his State of the Union message to Congress. That is one of the things his contract calls for -- to tell congress the condition of the country. This message, as I say, is to Congress. The rest of the people know the condition of the country, for they live in it, but Congress has no idea what is going on in America, so the president has to tell 'em." ~ Will Rogers
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  10. #20  
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    Thank you Odysseus for posting the link. Up to this point I haven't read much about McChrystal. I agree with many, that submitting to the interview with Rolling Stone was probably bad judgement regardless of the severity of what was said. I had heard many compare this situation to Truman and MacArthur, and even though I haven't read the full text of the interview yet, I'm quite sure that's just extreme hyperbole and exaggeration. However, Obama is Commander in Chief, and it's within his power to hire or fire whom he sees fit to fill that role.
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