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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    If they had an ounce of decency and love of Country and Constitution, the vote would have been 9-0.
    It is pretty pathetic that 4 left wing ideologue justices voted against the constitution.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    The case I'm waiting for is the case which strikes down the permit process. If owning and bearing (i.e. carrying) a firearm is an individual right, then the right is on equal footing with other individual rights such as free speech, religion, etc. If that is the case, then I don't need a permit to speak freely, and I don't need a permit to join a religion. Why would I need a permit to own and carry a firearm?
    Be careful. With that logic, government will say "you're right!" and require permits for approved speech and authorized religions.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member malloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00 View Post
    Be careful. With that logic, government will say "you're right!" and require permits for approved speech and authorized religions.
    You know, it wouldn't surprise me. I'm not too worried about it as I live in a state that as of July 28th will no longer require a permit to carry concealed, and already allows for open carry. I just hate that I can't travel and carry at the same time.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Chuck58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    You know, it wouldn't surprise me. I'm not too worried about it as I live in a state that as of July 28th will no longer require a permit to carry concealed, and already allows for open carry. I just hate that I can't travel and carry at the same time.
    I carry everywehre. My wife's relatives are mostly in Maine and NH. I have my P7 in the glovebox or center console when we make the trip from NM. I don't worry while following I-40 through the South. I admit I start getting nervous when we come out of Virginia or WV and hit Pennsylvania.

    I really get nervous when we go into Conn and Mass. Fortunately they're little states.

    I'm damned, though, if I'm going to go on a 2200 mile or more trip unarmed. The worst of the trip, from a Rights standpoint, is lower New England, and we can get through those dwarf states in a few hours.
    The poster formerly known as chuck58 on the old board.
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  5. #15  
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    I thought you guys were all about states' rights? What happened?
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  6. #16  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhrushchevsShoe View Post
    I thought you guys were all about states' rights? What happened?
    The day that the second amendment is no more we will no longer have states rights. You don't pick and choose which part of the constitution to abide by, you take it as a whole.
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  7. #17  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Talk about a big kick in the balls to the left.


    It shouldn't be, though. There are plenty of gun owners on the left.

    Coleman Young, mayor of Detroit from the 70s until the early 90s, was a lot of things, but a liberal, through and through. He always opposed having stricter gun control laws in the city than in the rest of the state, despite Detroit's crime rate, and maybe even because of it. He packed heat, and he knew a lot of his citizens did so, also.
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  8. #18  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhrushchevsShoe View Post
    I thought you guys were all about states' rights? What happened?
    No, we are about the rule of law. All American citizens have rights which are explicitly stated in the Constitution, as well as rights which are implied and rights which are guaranteed because they are not mentioned, and which cannot be nullified by the states. The There are certainly States' Rights, which are explicitly guaranteed by the Tenth Amendment, but which are limited under the Privileges and Immunities clause of the US Constitution. Second Amendment explicitly enumerates an individual right to keep and bear arms. If a state can nullify that, then it can nullify the explicit rights to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom from warrantless searches, etc.

    OTOH, you guys are supposed to be about individual rights. Doesn't self-defense count as a right?
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  9. #19  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    No, we are about the rule of law. All American citizens have rights which are explicitly stated in the Constitution, as well as rights which are implied and rights which are guaranteed because they are not mentioned, and which cannot be nullified by the states. The There are certainly States' Rights, which are explicitly guaranteed by the Tenth Amendment, but which are limited under the Privileges and Immunities clause of the US Constitution. Second Amendment explicitly enumerates an individual right to keep and bear arms. If a state can nullify that, then it can nullify the explicit rights to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom from warrantless searches, etc.

    OTOH, you guys are supposed to be about individual rights. Doesn't self-defense count as a right?

    It does in my book, and I'm a liberal. I'm not a gun owner, myself, but I will defend any other law-abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Besides, I live in a large, urban area, and I work in a job that pisses people off. If I ever see one of my adult clients on my porch, well, I'll probably buy a gun at that point. If that day comes, it's good to know that I can go to the gun store and get one.
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  10. #20  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    It does in my book, and I'm a liberal. I'm not a gun owner, myself, but I will defend any other law-abiding citizen's right to bear arms. Besides, I live in a large, urban area, and I work in a job that pisses people off. If I ever see one of my adult clients on my porch, well, I'll probably buy a gun at that point. If that day comes, it's good to know that I can go to the gun store and get one.
    Well, you can get one under Michigan law, but only after you get a license. MCL 28.422 requires that a person "shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol." These licenses are issued by the local police or, if the town doesn't have it's own police, then by the county sheriff. After you've waited the mandatory however long that takes, made sure that your permits are in order and ingratiated yourself to the local PD, you may have that gun in time for your Next of Kin to avenge you.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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