#1 Nato should press on and give Georgia membership
08-10-2008, 08:00 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
The conflict between Georgia and Russia would have exploded anyway, in some form, were Nato to have pressed ahead with offering Georgia a start on the road to membership, possibly at its meeting at the end of the year. The eruption on Friday should not deter Nato from taking that step soon.
Of course, many Nato members will consider how, had Georgia already been a member, they would have had to defend it. Germany will win more support for its argument, which dominated the Nato summit in April, that it would be wrong to offer membership for fear of provoking Russia and while its territory remains in dispute. Alarm at this near-war on Europe’s borders will easily persuade more governments of the need for caution.
That would be wrong. It would tell Russia that it had an effective veto over who joined Nato. It would discourage the pro-American and pro-European spirit of President Saakashvili, elected in 2004 partly for those sentiments. It might even make it harder to agree the deployment of international peacemakers in South Ossetia by showing that the US and Europe were indifferent to Georgia’s case.
There appear to have been serious miscalculations, more so on the Georgian side. Given the close contact with the US, that might be extended to the US as well. Saakashvili may have deluded himself that four years of US help in equipping his armed forces enabled them to make a dash for their prize. In taking advantage of the distraction of the Olympics, he looks sneaky, and so jeopardises his claim to the moral high ground.
The Nato summit was a clash of philosophies about Europe’s future. On one side was President Bush, making one of his best speeches, about the value of bringing Georgia and Ukraine into Nato as an assertion of common principles. On the other was Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, laying out why this should be postponed, perhaps for ever, even at the cost of undermining the pro-Western camp in Georgia. (British officials let it be known that they were on the American side in sympathy, but as the US would not win, they were “on the side of compromise”.)
08-11-2008, 12:29 AM
- Join Date
- May 2008
Pretty fucking sad that we have offered them no real help, they came into Iraq with us.
gatorGuest08-11-2008, 07:50 AM
We have no business worrying about places like South Ossetia. With hundreds of thousands of troops already deployed on combat missions all over the world the last thing our country needs to do is get involved with another stupid foreign entanglement.
Since the war has nothing to do with the security of Israel the NeoCons will blow it off. The Liberals don’t even know what is going on. Georgia is pretty well fucked in drumming up American or International support.
Maybe they could have conjured up a fabrication that the Ossetians were massing weapons of mass destruction that was a threat to Israel and then the American NeoCon war drums would be beating so loud you could hear them all the way to Moscow.
gatorGuest08-11-2008, 08:15 AM
Maybe we will get involved in it:
Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
August 8, 2008
Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.
Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”
Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.
In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.
Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.
Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.
Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia's prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a "durable peace" is reached. "As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations."
DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.
The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.
Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.
DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources:
Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.
Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.
Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.
These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.
In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.”
This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.
Maybe we will be pulled into another stupid war for the benefit of Israel. This is a dated article but it shows we are continuing our entanglements.
Green Berets now in Georgia: U.S. Special Forces are training Georgian soldiers to fight radical Muslims. The mission could benefit other U.S. interests as well
VFW Magazine, June-July, 2002 by Tim Dyhouse
E-mail Print Link President George Bush called the May deployment of some 150 U.S. advisers to Georgia the latest front in the U.S. war on terrorism. Much like their fellow soldiers in the Philippines, U.S. Special Forces are teaching Georgian soldiers how to better fight Muslim extremists within their country. Also, as in the Philippines, U.S. troops are not permitted to engage in combat.
"So long as there's al Qaeda anywhere, we will help the host countries root them out and bring them to justice," Bush has said.
Georgia is the first former Soviet republic to train with U.S. troops since Sept. 11. (Several other ex-Soviet states have allowed the use of their airfields.) The mission gives Washington a strategic toehold to help stabilize the oil-rich and volatile Caspian Sea region.
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
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- May 2008
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- Nov 2004
- On the river
08-11-2008, 04:40 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
This invasion of Georgia will spook Poland and the rest of the former Soviet slave states into doing something but he hopes it will scare them into not accepting NATO membership or ABM'S !
On the one hand Russia calculates that we will do nothing military to help Georgia and Putin took a small calculated risk.
He feels closed in with these countries either planning on joining NATO of basing ABM Missiles next door to Russia .He hopes this will 'scatter the chickens' so to speak !
Russia will wait and watch the US presidential elections and if the liberal/Maoists win he will expand his plan to rebuild the Soviet Union on new oil revenues and start all over again .
08-11-2008, 04:48 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
McCain Ups the Ante on The Republic of Georgia
"Sounds Like Our Next President !":D
– Today, in Erie, Pennsylvania, U.S. Senator John McCain delivered the following statement regarding the current conflict between Georgia and Russia: “Americans wishing to spend August vacationing with their families or watching the Olympics may wonder why their newspapers and television screens are filled with images of war in the small country of Georgia. Concerns about what occurs there might seem distant and unrelated to the many other interests America has around the world. And yet Russian aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States of America.... snip
“In recent days Moscow has sent its tanks and troops across the internationally recognized border into the Georgian region of South Ossetia. Statements by Moscow that it was merely aiding the Ossetians are belied by reports of Russian troops in the region of Abkhazia, repeated Russian bombing raids across Georgia, and reports of a de facto Russian naval blockade of the Georgian coast. Whatever tensions and hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow’s path of violent aggression. Russian actions, in clear violation of international law, have no place in 21st century Europe.
“The implications of Russian actions go beyond their threat to the territorial integrity and independence of a democratic Georgia. Russia is using violence against Georgia, in part, to intimidate other neighbors – such as Ukraine – for choosing to associate with the West and adhering to Western political and economic values. As such, the fate of Georgia should be of grave concern to Americans and all people who welcomed the end of a divided of Europe, and the independence of former Soviet republics. The international response to this crisis will determine how Russia manages its relationships with other neighbors. We have other important strategic interests at stake in Georgia, especially the continued flow of oil through the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which Russia attempted to bomb in recent days; the operation of a critical communication and trade route from Georgia through Azerbaijan and Central Asia; and the integrity and influence of NATO, whose members reaffirmed last April the territorial integrity, independence, and sovereignty of Georgia.
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