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  1. #11  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    I just can't see how people consider Mr. Assange a traitor for doing his duty as a reporter, while PFC Manning is given the easy street for completely failing to be the man the U.S. Military trusted him to be.
    Why do you think PFC Manning is being given the easy street? He is not. He is at the root of the whole thing and will be tried and convicted.

    I disagree with you on the Wiki guy. There comes a point where free speech is trumped by the damage it will do. This wasn't a case where some idiot like the Phelps bunch wants to needle and throw barbs at someone's funeral just because they have the right to free speech and protest. This was instead the leak of classified documents of a government during a time of war that aides the enemy and could seriously do harm both diplomatically and on the battlefield. This is beyond just 'free speech' of a reporter to publish what he was given by source. As I said above, he willfully acted as a conduit to deliever classified documents from one government to their enemies. I see it as espionage.
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  2. #12 Go 
    Senior Member obx's Avatar
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    I fear he will not be arrested.
    ________
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    Last edited by obx; 03-21-2011 at 06:20 PM.
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  3. #13  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    Yes, as a matter of fact it does. Need to know, and classification are military stipulations. You should look into that. Civilian agents have their own classification. Most especially when it comes to a civilian of a different national origin.
    The abridgement of the press argument aside, there are actions for which the Wikileaks founder may be prosecuted. He has received stolen documents, which is, in itself, a crime (receipt of stolen property). He has disseminated classified information during wartime, which constitutes espionage, even if he is not directly operating on behalf of al Qaeda or the Taliban. If he is operating out of a NATO or other nation which is a signatory to a mutual defense pact with the United States, he could be in violation of those laws as well. He is, I believe, an Australian national, and Australia has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, so he may be charged with treason against the crown.

    This is what you get when you kick over the hornets' nest.
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    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #14  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    Yes, as a matter of fact it does. Need to know, and classification are military stipulations. You should look into that. Civilian agents have their own classification. Most especially when it comes to a civilian of a different national origin.
    What he did is still espionage.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member malloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Why do you think PFC Manning is being given the easy street? He is not. He is at the root of the whole thing and will be tried and convicted.
    I think he's been given it easy because people, everyday Americans, are looking for ways to spread the blame instead of focusing the blame on the one guy who actually had a legal and ethical duty to keep his mouth shut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    There comes a point where free speech is trumped by the damage it will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The abridgement of the press argument aside,

    There never comes a point where the free speech of a civilian is trumped by anything, and the freedom of the press cannot be put aside because it is inconvenient to the argument. It is the entire argument. Why do you think men, like you Ody, and me and my friends, served and fought? I love American values so much, including the absolute right to free speech and press, that I decided to put on my boots, grab a gun, and travel to far off lands in order to protect those values for my fellow Americans. How then can I condemn a journalist for reporting news, even if said journalist isn't an American? Sure the news he reported was brought to him from a source who had a contractual and moral obligation not to leak it, but that moral and contractual obligation does not, in my opinion, extend to other parties. Sure, the documents he reported may cause damage to my fellow Marines, and I don't agree with the reporter's decision to publish, but the very reason the Marine Corps even exists is to defend the reporter's right to report.

    Think about why Manning's more honorable colleges do the job they do, and then tell me that freedom of the press is irrelevant to the argument, or that free speech can be trumped by some security argument. The very reason Manning was where he was, the very reason those document's even exist, was an effort to preserve American values, and one of those values is an absolute freedom of the press.

    Manning, and Manning alone is at fault for the leak. I don't blame bees for stinging, I don't blame lions for hunting, and I won't blame a reporter for reporting. I will blame an intel analyst, who made a promise and was given a position of trust, for behaving dishonorably.
    Last edited by malloc; 08-03-2010 at 04:33 PM.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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  6. #16  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    I'm not able to agree with you Malloc.
    Manning is not getting a break from anybody. He's guilty of treason.

    He is primarily responsible for the leak, but that doesn't let the Wiki guy off
    the hook for the role he played in this. There's a difference in 'reporting news'
    and 'publishing stolen classified documents'.

    I'll just leave it at that.
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  7. #17  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    I'm not able to agree with you Malloc.
    Manning is not getting a break from anybody. He's guilty of treason.

    He is primarily responsible for the leak, but that doesn't let the Wiki guy off
    the hook for the role he played in this. There's a difference in 'reporting news'
    and 'publishing stolen classified documents'.

    I'll just leave it at that.
    Agreed.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member warpig's Avatar
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    Typical liberal media types, they all want to be Woodward and Berstein. They are like rock star wanna be's, but they scream like little girls when the shit hits the fan.
    "What this country needs are more unemployed politicians."
    -Edward Langley

    "Liberals are the type of people who go on safari and wonder why they can't get out and pet the lions..."- warpig
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member malloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    I'm not able to agree with you Malloc.
    Manning is not getting a break from anybody. He's guilty of treason.

    He is primarily responsible for the leak, but that doesn't let the Wiki guy off
    the hook for the role he played in this. There's a difference in 'reporting news'
    and 'publishing stolen classified documents'.

    I'll just leave it at that.
    Yeah, I can see your side of the argument and I too think that the wikileak's guy made a poor decision in publishing the documents, but I just think that it was his decision to make poorly.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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  10. #20  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Malloc, I'm sure you have a much better perspective on this with your intelligence background than I do. It's just that I have zero tolerance for things like this. I see the world in black and white. I can't stand to see situations like this that are clearly so wrong being justified because it might step on on one individual's rights. That's why I say there is a point when the rights of this one individual Wikiguy are trumped by the security of a whole country.

    I'm sure nothing will ever happen to the Wikiguy, he will get off scott free on this whole deal. But I sure hope this whole affair taints his business to the point that he goes bankrupt and dies a broke lonely old man reflecting on what he did every day of his life right up to his last breath. I hope it haunts him every night in his sleep. A pox on him.
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