Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24
  1. #11  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Quote Originally Posted by M21 View Post
    I expected this response from somebody, just not so quickly. :) It's the standard answer of academia. You see I don't need "responsible citizens" making "informed political decisions". I need technical experts. They can get well rounded on their own time. ;)
    I can see that from an employers perspective sure... But in a country whos course of action can be largely determined by the decisions of the populace, the importance of well rounded education trumps any employers short term benefit, IMHO.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member cowbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    128
    while i agree that you learn more by doing ( i am a huge proponent of experiential education), i think limited skill sets are only useful for some. if youre teaching someone on the job, that is just one skillset. it does give you the chance to be really really good at those skills... bit i think that for some people, at least having the opportunity to learn about a wide range of things is more useful as it allows for discovery of new interests. i think education (all eduction) is one of the most important things in life. to say that its a waste of time has just never made any sense to me.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    11,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Good point. Only 25% of all Americans have a college degree, and a tiny fraction of those have PhDs.
    It's easy to lose sight of that; eveyone I know has at least a BA, and at least half have advanced degrees. That's just normal in my area and among my acquaintance, so you tend to think that what's normal around you is normal everywhere else.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    Patent Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by cowbell View Post
    while i agree that you learn more by doing ( i am a huge proponent of experiential education), i think limited skill sets are only useful for some. if youre teaching someone on the job, that is just one skillset. it does give you the chance to be really really good at those skills... bit i think that for some people, at least having the opportunity to learn about a wide range of things is more useful as it allows for discovery of new interests. i think education (all eduction) is one of the most important things in life. to say that its a waste of time has just never made any sense to me.
    It is the job of our public education system to ensure that our citizens can think for themselves and understand basic concepts such as reading, writing, mathematics, the scientific process, and history.

    College should be about refining and improving these skills with a concentrated focus on a particular field of study. Whether that includes geology for accountants is a question I leave as an aside. But students should already know the basics of scientific thinking before they get to college, they shouldn't need remedial "this is a rock" classes.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Festivus Moderator ralph wiggum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Springfield, USA
    Posts
    16,831
    The model is the CPA exam that qualifies certified public accountants. The same test is used nationwide. It is thorough -- four sections, timed, totaling 14 hours. A passing score indicates authentic competence (the pass rate is below 50%). Actual scores are reported in addition to pass/fail, so that employers can assess where the applicant falls in the distribution of accounting competence. You may have learned accounting at an anonymous online university, but your CPA score gives you a way to show employers you're a stronger applicant than someone from an Ivy League school.
    I call B.S. A lot of what you learn to study for the CPA exam is never used in real-life accounting & finance.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Hartford, CT USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Why do you have to take algebra to major in theater, or art?

    To expose you to different topics, many of which require some unique thinking skills that will aid you in other areas. We all have to know a little bit about science to be a responsible citizen these days that can actually make somewhat informed and intelligent political decisions (especially in the earth sciences, biology). Not saying the introductory science courses always serve that purpose, but thats the theory anyways, and it makes sense.

    I do think more courses need to be taught on basic logic skills, reasoning and philosophy instead of teaching a scientific subject and hoping the student just picks up those skills. This place (the US, and even the world) is experiencing a critical thought famine (/waves at the creationists)
    What the author presents is not new; it's an argument that recycles periodically, i.e., that of effectively replacing education with trade schools (however they're implemented). Education, however, is not simply learning a trade, e.g., mechanical engineering or computer science. Rather, education is the process of teaching people how to think, how to analyze, and to assimilate.

    This is accomplished, as wilbur notes, through exposure to different topics and varying forms of analysis. Deconstructing The Wasteland, for example, teaches an analytic process that is substantially different than that provided through analysis of a chemical compound. Similarly, mapping the syntax of a sentence in Old Norse is different, at the thought process level, than refining an algorithm for a data mining program. While all are different, all are necessary (or their equivalents) to really succeed in most professions.

    Go ahead and give people, for example, programming jobs on the basis of certification rather than an education. Make sure they've got that focused, in-depth knowledge and skill to address the exact task that you need them for. And I'll be there right behind you to replace that person with a $25/hour Indian. :D
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #17  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,003
    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    It's easy to lose sight of that; eveyone I know has at least a BA, and at least half have advanced degrees. That's just normal in my area and among my acquaintance, so you tend to think that what's normal around you is normal everywhere else.
    That's true. I work in an environment where many many people have PhDs, and you forget how abnormal it is. If I'm not careful, I can start to believe that the whole world is wacky professors who couldn't find their ass with both hands.

    But seriously, it means that 75% of the country does not have a bachelor's.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #18  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    11,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    But seriously, it means that 75% of the country does not have a bachelor's.
    Well, to get to Charles Murray's real point, someone has to clean my house. Someone has to repair my car. ;)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #19  
    Festivus Moderator ralph wiggum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Springfield, USA
    Posts
    16,831
    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Well, to get to Charles Murray's real point, someone has to clean my house. Someone has to repair my car. ;)
    As Judge Smails would say, the world needs ditch-diggers too.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #20  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Hartford, CT USA
    Posts
    2,024
    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Well, to get to Charles Murray's real point, someone has to clean my house. Someone has to repair my car. ;)
    I thought that's why God created illegal immigrants.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •