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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    The right to read whatever I goddamned well please
    The right to play whatever games I damned well like
    To be treated as a responsible adult with brains instead of a five year old needing to be led and nannied all day long..if I wanna buy fireworks whilst wearing a Colt. 45 in a quickdraw holster, that should be my right.

    No banned books

    No banned games

    No banned music

    No censorship (within reasonable limits)
    Aka, no political writings I disagree with in the libraries. Only freedom books about liberty. My liberty, just the way I see it.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    I've been quite critical of libertarianism, but rather than drawing from my interpretation of libertarian texts, I 'd like to hear from people whom are able to receive counter-points

    i'm not pushing FOR any particular ideology in this thread, just offering an alternative perspective and possible critique of libertarianism.

    a perfect thread for those who are sure they believe the core principles are most important
    It's pretty simple. The non aggression principle and that all liberty stems from property rights. Libertarianism is great at exposing the lefts falicy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I
    Last edited by Molon Labe; 09-16-2010 at 09:21 AM.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
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  3. #13  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhrushchevsShoe View Post
    Aka, no political writings I disagree with in the libraries. Only freedom books about liberty. My liberty, just the way I see it.
    Says the shoe, as low as you can go, in the matrix.
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  4. #14  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The basic premise of Libertarian philosophy is that all rights begin with the right to live. In order to sustain life, you therefore must be able to create the means to survive, to use them and dispose of them. Thus, the right to live creates the corollary right to create and own property. Any infringement of this right is therefore an infringement of the right to live. The next corollary right is the right to self defense, to include defense of yourself and those for whom you are responsible, such as family, and the defense of property, because property is the means by which we sustain life. All other rights are derived from these basic rights.

    Now, there are pro-life Libertarians (Ron Paul, for example) and pro-choice Libertarians. There are religious Libertarians and non-religious Libertarians. In fact, there are Libertarians on both sides of most philosophical issues, but the core issues remain the right to live, to create and own, and to defend yourself and what is yours.
    Can you explain how property rights asre a corollary of the right to life?
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  5. #15  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    The right to read whatever I goddamned well please
    The right to play whatever games I damned well like
    To be treated as a responsible adult with brains instead of a five year old needing to be led and nannied all day long..if I wanna buy fireworks whilst wearing a Colt. 45 in a quickdraw holster, that should be my right.

    No banned books

    No banned games

    No banned music

    No censorship (within reasonable limits)
    Aren't you the same guy who wants people banned for posting points of view you don't like?

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    The best way to sum it up for me is,

    It's not my responsibility to see to it that your child eats.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Can you explain how property rights asre a corollary of the right to life?
    You didn't watch the video did you?

    Self Ownership and the right to the fruits of your labor is pretty much a no brainer.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
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  8. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by m00 View Post
    It's like if you combine the civil liberties stance that Democrats don't actually practice with the small-government stance that Republicans don't actually practice.
    LMAO! Yeah, that's a pretty good thumbnail sketch of the situation and I say that as a card-carrying member of the Libertarian Party. :p
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    there are two senses in which property rights are identical with human rights: one, that property can only accrue to humans, so that their rights to property are rights that belong to human beings; and two, that the person's right to his own body, his personal liberty,, is a property right in his own person as well as a "human right." But more importantly for our discussion, human rights, when not put in terms of property rights, turn out to be vague and contradictory, causing liberals to weaken those rights on behalf of "public policy" or the "public good - Murray Rothbard (The Ethics of Liberty)
    Property rights equal human rights.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
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  10. #20  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Can you explain how property rights asre a corollary of the right to life?
    I thought that I did. The right to live requires that you be able to sustain your life through your own efforts, or through the exchange of those efforts with others. Consequently, you have the right to produce goods and services, and to own what you produce. This is the basic premise of property rights, and demonstrates the connection between property rights and the right to live.

    BTW, we ought to define rights, while we are at it. A right is a freedom to act or refrain from acting, which is not dependent on any action or inaction on the part of another. This means that rights are held equally, even if the results of the exercise of those rights differ tremendously.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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