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  1. #1 Che T-Shirt in an Army Gym??? 
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    This morning, at one of the on-post gyms, I stopped a young man (19 years old) who was walking in wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. I asked him if he thought that it was appropriate to be wearing that in a US Army facility. He looked at me blankly, while his escort, in PT uniform, said, "It's okay, he's a civilian." I explained that it wasn't okay, and that Che Guevara was a mass murderer and a petty thug, and that wearing that shirt was not an appropriate statement to make on FT Hood. The kid was willing to turn his shirt inside out (and I would have let him), but his friend, who was an NCO, objected. I asked him what he knew about Che. The answer was not much, he'd seen Soderberg's movie, but that was it. I had what our liberal friends like to call a "teachable moment."

    I explained to him that Che was Castro's jailer, the man who set up his concentration camps and who ordered the murders of thousands of innocent Cubans, often just after their families had petitioned for their release, and that in doing so, he had filled the same capacity for Castro that Himmler had filled for Hitler. I also told him about Che's antics as a Guerilla fighter in Congo and Bolivia (in which he ended up attacking his own column and got lost in the jungle and nearly starved, due to his own ineptitude), and how he was a laughingstock among real Soldiers. I also explained that Soderberg had taken some liberties with the story, such has giving Che a heroic death in battle, when in fact he had begged to be taken prisoner and tried to bargain for his life. Finally, I pointed out that a lot of Cuban-Americans had joined the army, and that for them, that Che t-shirt was as insulting as a Himmler or Pol Pot T-Shirt would be to the descendents of their victims. When they left, the kid seemed genuinely contrite about wearing an icon without knowing its history. The NCO was irritated about getting an earful from an officer and missing a workout, but I told him that if the kid turned the shirt inside out, he could wear it.

    I can't wait for Wilbur, Wei or Arroyo to tell me why it is okay to ban US flag t-shirts in a high school on Cinco de Mayo, but it's okay to wear an icon of an anti-American thug and mass murderer to a US Army facility.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  2. #2  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Some people just thought the cuban revolution was neat
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  3. #3  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Some people just thought the cuban revolution was neat
    I'm sure that some people felt the same way about the Third Reich, Stalin's purges, Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward and Pol Pot's Killing Fields. They'd be wrong, too.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #4  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    some people think it's a cool shirt
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Some people just thought the cuban revolution was neat
    Hundreds of thousands of Cubans who fled to Miami are "thrilled" about it. The others can only lament the demise of freedom on that Island nation.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    This morning, at one of the on-post gyms, I stopped a young man (19 years old) who was walking in wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. I asked him if he thought that it was appropriate to be wearing that in a US Army facility. He looked at me blankly, while his escort, in PT uniform, said, "It's okay, he's a civilian." I explained that it wasn't okay, and that Che Guevara was a mass murderer and a petty thug, and that wearing that shirt was not an appropriate statement to make on FT Hood. The kid was willing to turn his shirt inside out (and I would have let him), but his friend, who was an NCO, objected. I asked him what he knew about Che. The answer was not much, he'd seen Soderberg's movie, but that was it. I had what our liberal friends like to call a "teachable moment."

    I explained to him that Che was Castro's jailer, the man who set up his concentration camps and who ordered the murders of thousands of innocent Cubans, often just after their families had petitioned for their release, and that in doing so, he had filled the same capacity for Castro that Himmler had filled for Hitler. I also told him about Che's antics as a Guerilla fighter in Congo and Bolivia (in which he ended up attacking his own column and got lost in the jungle and nearly starved, due to his own ineptitude), and how he was a laughingstock among real Soldiers. I also explained that Soderberg had taken some liberties with the story, such has giving Che a heroic death in battle, when in fact he had begged to be taken prisoner and tried to bargain for his life. Finally, I pointed out that a lot of Cuban-Americans had joined the army, and that for them, that Che t-shirt was as insulting as a Himmler or Pol Pot T-Shirt would be to the descendents of their victims. When they left, the kid seemed genuinely contrite about wearing an icon without knowing its history. The NCO was irritated about getting an earful from an officer and missing a workout, but I told him that if the kid turned the shirt inside out, he could wear it.

    I can't wait for Wilbur, Wei or Arroyo to tell me why it is okay to ban US flag t-shirts in a high school on Cinco de Mayo, but it's okay to wear an icon of an anti-American thug and mass murderer to a US Army facility.



    Major why didnt you make the two do push-ups or grass drills? :D
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    some people think it's a cool shirt
    A liberal punk like you would.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    some people think it's a cool shirt
    Hugo Boss designed the SS uniforms, so they were obviously much cooler than Che t-shirts, but only an idiot who didn't know what the SS stood for or who agreed with their actions would wear one. The same goes for the Che shirt. Any other inane observations on the subject?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Major why didnt you make the two do push-ups or grass drills? :D
    The kid wearing the shirt was a civilian, and I didn't want to dog the NCO, I wanted to educate him. I was trying to teach him about tyranny, not demonstrate it.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Hugo Boss designed the SS uniforms, so they were obviously much cooler than Che t-shirts, but only an idiot who didn't know what the SS stood for or who agreed with their actions would wear one. The same goes for the Che shirt. Any other inane observations on the subject?

    The kid wearing the shirt was a civilian, and I didn't want to dog the NCO, I wanted to educate him. I was trying to teach him about tyranny, not demonstrate it.


    Nothing teaches like pain....
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  10. #10  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Nothing teaches like pain....
    As a general rule, you don't get dropped for push-ups after IET unless you're in a school situation, like OCS, Airborne or Ranger school. If I'd dropped him, or done something equally silly, he'd have walked away talking about what a dick that major was, instead of talking about what an evil bastard Che was.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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