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  1. #1 Confronting Right Wing Christians: Is it worth it or are we going about it the wrong 
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    Evoman (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-05-08 04:14 AM
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    Confronting Right Wing Christians: Is it worth it or are we going about it the wrong way?
    Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 04:18 AM by Evoman
    One of the conventional ideas I see from many of the atheists here, along with a heaping number of liberal christians, is the idea that we need to confront the fundies and right wing christians. Not only do we need to disagree with them, but we need to be active in "fighting" them or debating them.

    The more I think about it, the more I am starting to come to terms with the fact that that is the wrong way to go about doing things. These realizations come less from conversations I have with people on DU or on the internet, but more with the realities of my life and experiences. It's something I have been spending considerable brain power on, for one reason or other.

    As many of you know, I have several christian friends, including a couple that would actually classify as right wing christians. No lie, I am friends with christian fundamentalists. Good friends. Since elementary.
    If they were truly your friends, you wouldn't see the need to change them. You would love them as they are.

    ......... So what am I trying to say here? As far as I've seen, there are three useful, effective ways to get fundies to change their world-view:
    1)Introduce to them to people who don't believe as they do, and force them to confront their prejudices and stereotypes. If they hate gays, get them to meet gay people.
    Note the use of the word "force." Nice.

    2)Subtly encourage them in any intellectual pursuit. I like to think that I encouraged my friend's interest in history, which led him to university to study history. Education, especially in the social sciences, correlates high with a reduction on religousity (so I've heard).
    So if you didn't encourage them, they would never engage in any intellectual pursuit? Riiiiight.

    3)Encourage them to see fundamentalism as non-normal. If there is one common characteristic I see of fundies, is that they like being a majority, and like to conform. When they stay insulated in their christian communities, they don't get a chance to see that fundamentalism is really not as big a majority as they think it is.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "non-normal."

    ..........It ain't always fucking easy, thats for sure, but I'm serious. Fundies, despite all their bullshit, have some good chacteristics. Many of them can be loyal, hard-working people. They just have to broaden their damn horizons, and they can't do it unless we all give it shot. I think liberal christians have a better shot at this than we atheists do, but we can't just sit on the sidelines.

    On a higher level (society level), I agree. Don't think I'm getting soft, because I'm not. When fundies are trying to pass laws, change government, and oppress people, you got to keep them in fucking check with everything you have. You have to fight the fight. You can't give them a free pass, like we have been giving them for the past 30 years.
    Suppress the will of the people!

    But on a personal level, fighting just isn't going to get you anywhere. The fundies have such compartmentalized mind, and are so immune to reason, that we aren't going to change minds by fighting. If you fight them, if you confuse them, if you out-logic them, they just run back to the isolation of their fundie communities, and you just lost your chance to do something important. Influence can be so fucking strong if you give it a chance.
    The ignorance and hate in the post makes me want to puke. And he doesn't even know it, he thinks he's doing good by keeping people in "fucking check," that's the scary part!

    AlinPA (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-05-08 07:27 AM
    Response to Reply #6
    8. Yep, but I'd prefer just to ignore them and not associate with them. Life is too
    precious to try to do maintenance on irrational people.
    Patience is maintenance.
    Nice stereotyping. Apparently, that's only ok when liberals do it.

    And so on and so on....



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    Actually, that's fairly tolerant for DU. You should see what happens every time the Catholic Church gets mentioned.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Actually, that's fairly tolerant for DU. You should see what happens every time the Catholic Church gets mentioned.
    True. Still repulsive though.
    They're not people, they're hippies!! -Cartman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug68 View Post
    True. Still repulsive though.
    Oh, no doubt. The liberal Christians over there get reamed. I remember once posting a link to Antiques Road Show about an Einstein letter:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com...esg_id=3345019

    Not much in the way of response. But lots of response to Einstein's criticisms of religion.
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    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Of course, these are the same people who think it should be illegal for those fundies to explain their beliefs. Proselytizing and worship should be kept completely private...all that "go into your closet" stuff they take out of context so frequently. But we're the ones who need "educated."
    -
    -
    -

    In actual dollars, President Obamaís $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. Itís no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obamaís own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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    It's hard to believe some people actually think this way. I have always known they believe they are more intelligent than the right wing but this is beyond comprehension. :eek: I wonder if we could get them to try it out on the Taliban and see how it works. :D
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  7. #7  
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    As a right-wing "Fundie" I would like to tell this DUmmy where he can put his thoughts and opinions about what I should or should not be doing/saying/thinking. My convictions are alot stronger than his, and nither he, nor DU as a whole, or Democrats as a group are going to change the way I feel or think about what I hold as my values.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas View Post
    As a right-wing "Fundie" I would like to tell this DUmmy where he can put his thoughts and opinions about what I should or should not be doing/saying/thinking. My convictions are alot stronger than his, and nither he, nor DU as a whole, or Democrats as a group are going to change the way I feel or think about what I hold as my values.
    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Now imagine the DUmp monkeys' reactions had this guy been posting about how to change atheists' beliefs.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    I have zero problem with people of faith.

    Like gays or anyone else, I employ my peripheral vision and avoid them like the plague.

    I simply donít allow them to sponge my time - as I recognize it for what it is, a waste of resource. ;)
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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