Thread: Liberal Lies, Misunderstandings, and Misconceptions About Iraq

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  1. #11  
    Resident Grump
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    And there you have it, folks: Nada!
    I went to to work, you fool.
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  2. #12  
    John
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    Wow, what a total wash of BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post

    1) No one knows what victory is so we can't tell if we are doing well because we won't know if we ever win.
    If the Congress of the United States had the balls to formally declare this nation to be at war, then this would be a non-issue. Considering that never before has the U.S. declared war without an absolute definition of victory, then the 'victory' in this war is destined to go the way of the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, and the War on Iilliteracy. It's just common sense, if one is to 'win' a war, than one must meet objectives. In order to meet objectives, the objectives must be defined. The whole 'It looks good right now, so far' idea of war fighting is exactly how nations lose.


    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post
    This is a misconception on many levels. First, as long as violence is down and the trajectory on violence continues downward we are winning.
    I'm sorry. Since when has it been the responsibility of the U.S. employee, much less, the U.S. taxpayer to keep the peace, on foreign soil? You are saying that so long as our soldiers, sailors and Marines are doing a bang up job at playing Sheriff, we are winning? Dealing with inner turmoil and violence on foreign soil is not a function of the U.S. government. We, the U.S. taxpayers (remember us), aren't responsible for the safety foreign streets. You can call it a 'win', but at 600 billion a year for very low benefits to the U.S. citizen, I'll just drop that debt in the loss column.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post
    In other words as long as everyday brings less and less violence that means we are winning. Furthermore, the reduction in violence has been combined with significant political progress. This progress has not only been seen in many of the so called benchmarks (slowly more than half have been reached), but it also includes significant progress locally in many parts of the country. Locals in places like Ramadi have taken the bull by the horn. They have turned on AQI and other militias and they have restored order mainly on their own. Folks that used to be allied with the enemy are now allied with us and they are now patrolling local streets as part of newly minted police forces.
    Oh! Wow! So now "Nation Building" in 'un-enlightened' lands is considered a goal the U.S. should achieve?! So, now the U.S. Federal Government is spending the wealth of future U.S. citizens, and sacrificing the defensive capability of the States in order to secure the fledgling government of a foreign land? This is a good and noble thing?

    No, we The People, are not winning. Iraqis are winning on our labor and our blood. The U.S. isn't going to see a 'win' out of this. We The People are going to see debt and loss. Not exactly peak ROI.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post
    Furthermore, victory has always been defined as an Iraq, at peace with itself and its neighbors, a stable, self functioning government, capable of defending itself, and an ally in the GWOT.
    Gee! I've always thought victory in Iraq revolved around a safe haven where unicorns danced under cellophane skies. You know, a place where fraggles could get along with the smurfs and they could garden rainbows and prosperity.

    Seriously, are you retarded? Look at what we, as an unwilling nation, are trying to do. We are trying to institute, mandate by force, a secular democratic government in the heart of hard core sharia country. It's kind of like preaching Aithism to the bible belt. It's pretty close to trying to push a logging chain up the street, its just stupid and futile, and a complete waste of resources.


    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post
    While this maybe a broad and vague form of victory, and one that was demeaned as impossible as late as last year, it is one that is now very close to being achieved.
    Oh yeah, because the troops really benefit from broad and vague forms of victory. Two thumbs up there Einstein. Your idea of victory, which differs from your neighbors and their neighbors is absolutely unacceptable. If you want to build a little America out of Iraq I have a few suggestions for you.

    Stick to what made America American in the first place. The Constitution stupid. If America followed the letter and spirit of the Constitution, we wouldn't have troops in Iraq. That kind of leads to a conundrum..something along the lines of "do what I say, not what I do."

    Second, if you want to preach peace, you do so by trade dependence. This whole retardation around peace through 'peacekeeping forces' is insignificant compared to the power of trade. The founders saw this, hell even Penn and Teller's retarded asses saw the potential of trade as a peacekeeping force. Peace through moving troops into a nation to play cop is an absolute inefficient use of resources. Peace through financial independence is a given. Just look at the U.S. and China.


    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCluelessIdiot c/o Teetop View Post
    The simple fact of the matter is snip**.
    The simple fact of the matter is that Americans are now indentured into decades of debt for very little gain, and whatever gain is accomplished has not been agreed upon. The Constitution is a contract between the citizen and the government. It's binding, yet the government now expects the citizen to labor to fulfill his end of the contract while the government outright ignores their end of the bargain.

    Your whole idea revolves around 'victory' in Iraq. Go ahead and claim 'victory' when a foreign government achieves their goals upon the backs of U.S. citizens. You can call it a win all day long. I call it slavery.
    Last edited by John; 08-21-2008 at 06:46 AM.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    I find it amazing that John can come up with a quite coherent analysis of this subject, but our Australian participant is flummoxed. ;)
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  4. #14  
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    Seriously, are you retarded?
    Obviously, you are. You made it seem like you were quoting me. I didn't write it. Want to discuss it with the author? The URL is provided, retard.
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  5. #15  
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    I find it amazing that John can come up with a quite coherent analysis of this subject, but our Australian participant is flummoxed.
    ..about what?

    You are, as usual, making less than whatever sense it was you had last week.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    ..about what?
    :p
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  7. #17  
    Goldwater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teetop View Post
    Furthermore, victory has always been defined as an Iraq, at peace with itself and its neighbors, a stable, self functioning government, capable of defending itself, and an ally in the GWOT. While this maybe a broad and vague form of victory, and one that was demeaned as impossible as late as last year, it is one that is now very close to being achieved. The simple fact of the matter is that the central government has recently not only taken on AQI but the Sadr militias. Maliki's government has shown leadership in taking on the terrorist elements within its borders, furthermore it has begun to function in every way as a representative government of all the people of Iraq.
    I thought it was defined as removing Hussein and then installing a democratic government that would inspire the region to follow suit?
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  8. #18  
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teetop View Post
    Obviously, you are. You made it seem like you were quoting me. I didn't write it. Want to discuss it with the author? The URL is provided, retard.
    Yes, I am retarded. I wear a fluffy red helmet and ride the short bus to work while licking the windows and picking my nose. Being retarded is great fun, no one expects too much out of you and cute girls always treat you like a puppy. It's not a bad life.

    My replies were directed at the Author employing the 2nd person (i.e I called the author "You" because he was the speaker I was addressing). Your name was in the "Originally Posted By" header, along with the ">" link to the original post because it's just proper forum etiquette. I'll go back and fix it so it so it doesn't appear as though I'm refuting your ideas..
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  9. #19  
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    I find it amazing that John can come up with a quite coherent analysis of this subject, but our Australian participant is flummoxed. ;)
    I find it amazing that you find it amazing that I delivered a coherent analysis. I was under the impression that my arguments are at least rooted in well established libertarian philosophies if not supported by outright verifiable fact. :D
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  10. #20  
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    I find it amazing that John can come up with a quite coherent analysis of this subject, but our Australian participant is flummoxed
    No, just disinterested in another pissing match with a twerp who wont listen.

    Pearls = swine = You.

    Nuff said.
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