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  1. #11  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    What are you upset about? That the Koran prescribes the death penalty for blasphemy or that some Muslim societies follow that prescription?
    Both, really, and the fact that it's almost impossible to find a Muslim society that doesn't, and that the standard of proof in these cases is nonexistent (a Christian or Jew's testimony in a Sharia court is worth half of a Muslim's) and the standard of conduct is, to say the least, fluid. Literally anything that doesn't smack of absolute submission by a non-Muslim can be used to charge blasphemy, defamation of Islam or defamation of the prophet. For example, naming a teddy bear Muhammed almost got a teacher killed in North Africa. Basically, the lives of non-Muslims in Muslim states are in perpetual peril, and their safety is contingent on their neighbors not feeling up to denouncing them. Dhimmihood is a hellish existence, and we need to expose it, especially since there are those who want to impose Sharia here, in the US.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Both, really, and the fact that it's almost impossible to find a Muslim society that doesn't, and that the standard of proof in these cases is nonexistent (a Christian or Jew's testimony in a Sharia court is worth half of a Muslim's) and the standard of conduct is, to say the least, fluid. Literally anything that doesn't smack of absolute submission by a non-Muslim can be used to charge blasphemy, defamation of Islam or defamation of the prophet. For example, naming a teddy bear Muhammed almost got a teacher killed in North Africa. Basically, the lives of non-Muslims in Muslim states are in perpetual peril, and their safety is contingent on their neighbors not feeling up to denouncing them. Dhimmihood is a hellish existence, and we need to expose it, especially since there are those who want to impose Sharia here, in the US.
    So, help me understand the basis for the outrage being expressed here. Does the Islamic penalty for blasphemy upset you because you consider it barbaric or because you believe it serves the wrong deity?
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member enslaved1's Avatar
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    Not to interrupt what will no doubt be a fascinating debate here, but just so y'all know, this is nothing new. Check Voice of the Martyrs to find daily examples of such actions, often in Muslim nations, but they don't have a corner on the market. Beatings, imprisonment, murder, arson, ect, and few words from the forces for "tolerance" and "equality".
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    So, help me understand the basis for the outrage being expressed here. Does the Islamic penalty for blasphemy upset you because you consider it barbaric or because you believe it serves the wrong deity?
    I'm assuming the question is not only for Ody, since you used the term "outrage being expressed here", so I will answer on my own behalf:

    I think that the entire concept of "blasphemy" is an insult and an affront to human intelligence.

    It really does not matter to me which of the numerous man-made religious cults makes such a charge.

    Any charge of blasphemy has, by definition, to be a false charge, one that serves only to impose penalty (often painful or even, as in this case, lethal) for disbelief in the dominant cult's belief system.
    Last edited by hampshirebrit; 11-12-2010 at 06:37 PM.
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  5. #15  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    So, help me understand the basis for the outrage being expressed here. Does the Islamic penalty for blasphemy upset you because you consider it barbaric or because you believe it serves the wrong deity?
    I consider it barbaric, but I also consider Islam dangerous because its most basic tenet is that everyone must submit to the will of Allah, believer or not. As a Jew, I don't care if a Catholic eats pork (we're forbidden it as a noun, you see...), and a Catholic priest doesn't care who I pork (they are forbidden it as a verb), but to a Muslim, anything any of us do must comply with the Qur'an or Allah commands our humiliation, subjugation or death. The charge of blasphemy against a non-Muslim is not simply an example of barbaric conduct, but of a supremecist mindset that persecutes anyone of any other faith.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I consider it barbaric, but I also consider Islam dangerous because its most basic tenet is that everyone must submit to the will of Allah, believer or not. As a Jew, I don't care if a Catholic eats pork (we're forbidden it as a noun, you see...), and a Catholic priest doesn't care who I pork (they are forbidden it as a verb), but to a Muslim, anything any of us do must comply with the Qur'an or Allah commands our humiliation, subjugation or death. The charge of blasphemy against a non-Muslim is not simply an example of barbaric conduct, but of a supremecist mindset that persecutes anyone of any other faith.
    Good point, and I should and indeed meant to, include the point that Islam, above all, seems presently to be particularly fond of the concept of blasphemy, of all the Abrahamic monotheistic religions.

    Certainly, where one used to hear about adherents of the first two of these bringing blasphemy charges (in my own lifetime, even), nowadays it is almost always from "holy" Islam that such charges seem to originate.
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  7. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    So, help me understand the basis for the outrage being expressed here. Does the Islamic penalty for blasphemy upset you because you consider it barbaric or because you believe it serves the wrong deity?
    You have a really low bar set for "outrage". I made a mild comment. My mild comment was observational and accurate. Much more has been made in the press when gay men are the object of Islamic law. Women, Christians, Druze, and agnostics don't feel much love from the international community, let alone the professional advocacy community.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I consider it barbaric, but I also consider Islam dangerous because its most basic tenet is that everyone must submit to the will of Allah, believer or not. As a Jew, I don't care if a Catholic eats pork (we're forbidden it as a noun, you see...), and a Catholic priest doesn't care who I pork (they are forbidden it as a verb), but to a Muslim, anything any of us do must comply with the Qur'an or Allah commands our humiliation, subjugation or death. The charge of blasphemy against a non-Muslim is not simply an example of barbaric conduct, but of a supremecist mindset that persecutes anyone of any other faith.
    Wait a second. Are you suggesting that the Islamic penalty for blasphemy is barbaric only when Muslims apply it to non-Muslims?

    The charge of blasphemy against a non-Muslim is not simply an example of barbaric conduct, but of a supremecist mindset that persecutes anyone of any other faith.
    Well, all the Abrahamic faiths are basically imperialistic ventures built on occultism so let's not single out any one faith.
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 11-12-2010 at 10:04 PM.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    You have a really low bar set for "outrage". I made a mild comment. My mild comment was observational and accurate. Much more has been made in the press when gay men are the object of Islamic law. Women, Christians, Druze, and agnostics don't feel much love from the international community, let alone the professional advocacy community.
    Perhaps I was projecting some of my own feeling. I think people should be outraged by the story of a woman sentenced to death for blasphemy... but I think they should be outraged for the right reason-- because the penalty is barbaric, not because it serves what they believe is the wrong deity.
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  10. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Perhaps I was projecting some of my own feeling. I think people should be outraged by the story of a woman sentenced to death for blasphemy... but I think they should be outraged for the right reason-- because the penalty is barbaric, not because it serves what they believe is the wrong deity.
    I'm pretty sure a deity-evaluation wasn't on my mind.
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