We can't afford moral certainty about torture.

[megimoo]

Not all terrorists (or even the terrorists who've attacked or attempted to attack us) are Arabs or Arab-looking. Take the Underwear Bomber, for instance. Perhaps “Muslims” would've been more accurate than “Arabs”, megimoo, but I'd venture a guess and say if a terrorist was planning on doing something naughty these days they wouldn't try to look like a devout Muslim. Why would they draw so much attention to themselves?

True.The underwear bomber was black and Richard Reid the shoe bomber was an English convert .Neither one looked like a desert Arab .That's where profiling comes into play.If we used the same system as the Israeli's we would have picked both of them up before they even boarded the aircraft.With just about every Islamic country in the world against Israel and willing to die to destroy her it's amazing just how few terrorist incidents they have on their aircraft.

Their security methods definitely work but GOD forbid we ever use common sense and adopt them in America.

They are so non PC.They're inhuman to those who are trying their best to blow us out of the skies when we travel by aircraft.How can we be so cruel to those poor people who's only wish is to blow us into little bits at thirty seven thousand feet in the air.

We are so selfish and insensitive to those poor innocent, misunderstood terrorists.We should never protect ourselves and suspect them of any any acts of terror until they actually kill us as that is the sensitive way to behave .

[PoliCon]

Low level electric shocks leave body parts intact and undamaged. Do you consider that torture?

Acts that cause actual physical harm - you know like the rack or thumb screws or an iron maiden . . . . . or lasting psychological damage.

[PoliCon]

Look, I do think that waterboarding is a little bit more than harsh words with some added liquid refreshment, but if that's what it takes to save me and mine from having our limbs torn asunder in some bomb attempt (and I have already, relatively narrowly, escaped one such incident, and have met, thankfully on nodding terms only and thus entirely ignorant of his ambition, someone who ended up succeeding, only too well, in his own attempt), then I am all for it.

The whole point, I think, of the article I posted above, is that discussions about torture in academic and theoretical fora are all well and good, but in practical terms, we depend almost entirely on allowing our security forces the ability to persuade some very unpleasant (usually religiously inclined) people to give up information to prevent loss of innocent life.

If someone gets a bit wet and inconvenienced, and as a result of that wetness and that inconvenience, me and mine and you and yours get to live our lives out in peace, then so be it.

One of the most dangerous things we can do is treat this like a black or white issue and deny the reality of shades of gray.

[PoliCon]

PS: And yes, there's really no objective definition of torture. It all seems to be very subjective and arbitrary.

The left LOVES that it's subjective. That way they can keep moving the bar.

[PoliCon]

As far as I can tell the only critters who are blowing up other people are Arab Terrorists and they are all Muslims so whats the problem with profiling all Arab looking critters?

Funny how there is no complaint about how teachers are profiled all the time. You wanna work as a teacher - the government assumes that you are guilty of molesting kids until you prove otherwise.

[Articulate_Ape]

. . . or lasting psychological damage.

In the case of savages willing to kill and die for a space monster, that one is a little hard to pin down, so I would take my chances.

[Rockntractor]

Funny how there is no complaint about how teachers are profiled all the time. You wanna work as a teacher - the government assumes that you are guilty of molesting kids until you prove otherwise.

Not the topic of the thread.

[PoliCon]

Not the topic of the thread.

Tough shit. Someone brought up profiling - I responded. Take it up with that person not me.

[PoliCon]

In the case of savages willing to kill and die for a space monster, that one is a little hard to pin down, so I would take my chances.

a little anxiety is not lasting psychological damage. Making someone go insane is.

[Rockntractor]

Tough shit. Someone brought up profiling - I responded. Take it up with that person not me.

Go down to the airport for a free groin check, you'll feel better.