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  1. #1 Next step for tight security could be trains, boats, metro 
    Next step for tight security could be trains, boats, metro
    By Jordy Yager - 11/23/10 02:09 PM ET

    Editor's note: This story and its headline have been clarified to show that the Department of Homeland Security has not indicated it plans to use body scanners to tighten security at transportation sites beyond airports.

    The next step in tightened security could be on U.S. public transportation, trains and boats.

    Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary.

    “[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on "Charlie Rose."

    “I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

    Napolitano’s comments, made a day before one of the nation’s busiest travel days, come in the wake of a public outcry over newly implemented airport screening measures that have been criticized for being too invasive.

    The secretary has defended the new screening methods, which include advanced imaging systems and pat-downs, as necessary to stopping terrorists. During the interview with Rose, Napolitano said her agency is now looking into ways to make other popular means of travel safer for passengers and commuters.

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, introduced legislation this past September that would authorize testing of body scanners at some federal buildings.

    Napolitano’s comments were in response to the question: “What will they [terrorists] be thinking in the future?” She gave no details about how soon the public could see changes in security or about what additional safety measures the DHS was entertaining.

    The recently implemented airport screening methods have made John Pistole, who heads the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the focus of growing public ire.

    On Monday, Pistole said he understood peoples’ privacy concerns and that the TSA would consider modifying its screening policies to make them “as minimally invasive as possible,” but he indicated the advanced-imaging body scans and pat-down methods would remain in place in the short term, including during the high-volume Thanksgiving period of travel.

    Lawmakers from both parties have received hundreds of complaints about the new methods — some have likened the pat-downs to groping — and have called on Pistole to address the privacy concerns of their constituents, who were not informed about changes ahead of time.
    The Hill
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Urban mass transit is very difficult to secure. It would require major infrastructure upgrades to achieve any proper coverage. One would need airport-like screening systems to get anywhere close.

    Israel, which has suffered many bus bombings over the years, only secures bus terminals. Once the bus is out of the terminal, it's defenceless.

    Our Underground system in London suffered 3 attacks on 7/7 and one against a bus on the same day. Nothing has changed from an infrastructure perspective since then. It could happen tomorrow. Only good intelligence services have a shot at preventing this kind of attack.
    Last edited by hampshirebrit; 11-24-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    Urban mass transit is very difficult to secure. It would require major infrastructure upgrades to achieve any proper coverage. One would need airport-like screening systems to get anywhere close.

    Israel, which has suffered many bus bombings over the years, only secures bus terminals. Once the bus is out of the terminal, it's defenceless.

    Our Underground system in London suffered 3 attacks on 7/7 and one against a bus on the same day. Nothing has changed from an infrastructure perspective since then. It could happen tomorrow. Only good intelligence services have a shot at preventing this kind of attack.
    Or profiling.
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    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Or profiling.
    That too. I'm all for it. It works.
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    Senior Member ironhorsedriver's Avatar
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    They could only really do this at major stations. A lot of Amtrak stops are nothing more than a little covered spot. Rush hour subway in DC, a Clusterf*** waiting to happen.
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    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironhorsedriver View Post
    They could only really do this at major stations. A lot of Amtrak stops are nothing more than a little covered spot. Rush hour subway in DC, a Clusterf*** waiting to happen.
    Not much protection at major stations though, any more than there is at major hub airports. You're only "safe" at an airport once you're airside. You can't make the landside/airside demarc economically viable at a major rail or bus hub. Just the cost in traveller delay would make it non-viable.

    Our governments need to learn from Mumbai, London, Madrid.

    Johnny Jihad had an unsuccessful go at Glasgow a couple of years ago. It's a regional airport. Who gives a shit... except it fucked up everyone who had to travel through it, including me.

    Johnny Jihad is realigning for less-than-911-spectacular attacks that still have a high body-count potential. We are making ourselves more and more vulnerable to these kinds of attacks with the current misdirection of security effort.
    Last edited by hampshirebrit; 11-24-2010 at 06:33 PM.
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    money money money mon. ey.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    Not much protection at major stations though, any more than there is at major hub airports. You're only "safe" at an airport once you're airside. You can't make the landside/airside demarc economically viable at a major rail or bus hub. Just the cost in traveller delay would make it non-viable.

    Our governments need to learn from Mumbai, London, Madrid.

    Johnny Jihad had an unsuccessful go at Glasgow a couple of years ago. It's a regional airport. Who gives a shit... except it fucked up everyone who had to travel through it, including me.

    Johnny Jihad is realigning for less-than-911-spectacular attacks that still have a high body-count potential. We are making ourselves more and more vulnerable to these kinds of attacks with the current misdirection of security effort.
    Shortly after the Little Rock recruiting center shootings, I sent an e-mail to my BDE CDRr, detailing a list of similar incidents, and pointed out that North FT Hood, where mobilizing units are billeted and trained, was a soft target, and asked if I should be preparing a plan and he agreed. It turned out that main post had the same vulnerabilities, and they were exploited a month later, when Nidal Hasan showed up with his weapons.

    NYC has improved subway security immensely, but you can't be everywhere. The main stations are getting the most scrutiny, but it's the smaller, out of the way stops where a jihadi can get on a train, that you have to worry about. We need to expand HUMINT resources and operate domestically as well as overseas. Our enemies have already infiltrated, and we have to be vigilant.
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    And yet the southern border is as wide open as a 7-11 at 3am.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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