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  1. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    By volume, gasoline has more power than even dynamite. Don't even think of an electric eighteen wheeler hauling your necessities from a warehouse to retail stores in places where railroads don't run.

    As for the hydrogen fuel cell, better read this first. And it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than hydrogen can deliver as an energy source. Hydrogen does not exist in it's natural state on Earth, so it has to be manufactured.

    Remember that the object is to convert an energy source, any source, into mechanical motion...and do it as cheaply as possible, and in as compact a mode as possible.

    My 2¢.......
    Better read this:
    Hydrogen refueling ramps up in Norway
    November 26, 2010 | Ciara Byrne
    6 Comments

    A new hydrogen refueling station supplied by the Danish company H2 Logic will be installed just outside Oslo, Norway in summer 2011 as part of Norway’s “hydrogen highway“. Together with another planned Oslo hydrogen station in 2011, this means Norway will have one of the world’s densest hydrogen refueling networks.

    Hydrogen is produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is compressed and stored in the vehicle. Most hydrogen vehicles react hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell to run electric motors. So effectively a fuel-cell vehicle is a form of electric vehicle.

    Pike Research predicts that 37 percent of the 2.8 million fuel-cell vehicles sold by 2020 will be in Western Europe, 36 percent will be in the Asia-Pacific region and just 25 percent will be in North America. Several major automakers have recently announced their intentions to get fuel-cell models into showrooms by 2015.

    However, in 2009 the U.S. Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu announced that fuel cell hydrogen vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years” and that the U.S. government would cut off funds for development of such vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles have also been criticized as being more costly and less efficient at reducing carbon emissions than alternatives.

    Norway opened its first hydrogen station in Stavanger in 2003. Since then, an additional three stations have opened, and 20 hydrogen vehicles have been put into operation. Similar efforts are underway in Sweden and Denmark through a joint collaboration effort called Scandinavian Hydrogen Highway Partnership (SHHP).

    The SHHP plans to have at least 15 hydrogen stations in place by 2015. Presently seven stations are in operation and a further three stations are under construction. The public support for R&D and demonstration of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies in Scandinavia is in the range of €40-50 million ($53-66 million) per year. In Norway and Denmark there is no car registration tax on hydrogen vehicles. Normally, car registration taxes can be up to 180% of the base vehicle price.
    ;)
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  2. #12  
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    Just another hair brain greenie idea that will raise the cost of autos. If the morons in DC would like to reduce cost of fuel and emissions, it would support the use of natural gas. We have more than we could ever use. It is cheap and the price has stagnated for years until recently. The Asians use it in their vehicles. But no, they would rather come up with screwball ideas like Ethanol, electric, hybrids, etc. Most of these POS cars and fuels would not be manufactured if the government did not subsidize them. However, we are not as screwed up as the Scandinavians. Buy a Hydrogen fueled car and you will not have to pay the usual 180% over the price of a regular car. Wow....what an incentive.:eek:
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  3. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    Just another hair brain greenie idea that will raise the cost of autos. If the morons in DC would like to reduce cost of fuel and emissions, it would support the use of natural gas. We have more than we could ever use. It is cheap and the price has stagnated for years until recently. The Asians use it in their vehicles. But no, they would rather come up with screwball ideas like Ethanol, electric, hybrids, etc. Most of these POS cars and fuels would not be manufactured if the government did not subsidize them. However, we are not as screwed up as the Scandinavians. Buy a Hydrogen fueled car and you will not have to pay the usual 180% over the price of a regular car. Wow....what an incentive.:eek:
    For them, it is. Of course, no Scandinavian country is all that big and almost all the population is concentrated in a few areas. They don't have the travel challenges that Americans have.

    Still, it's a great test for hydrogen fuel cell cars and I wish them well.
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  4. #14  
    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Better read this:
    ;)
    I read it...
    However, in 2009 the U.S. Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu announced that fuel cell hydrogen vehicles “will not be practical over the next 10 to 20 years” and that the U.S. government would cut off funds for development of such vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles have also been criticized as being more costly and less efficient at reducing carbon emissions than alternatives.
    Remember that in Norway all taxpayers who are not on the dole pay for everybody else's groceries who are on the dole. Further, Norway is not Kansas, and there's not much of a market for fur coats in Burma. Capisca?

    http://members.socket.net/~mcruzan/images/allen-west.jpg

    Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

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