The Sick-Day Bounty Hunters

**m00** · 12-06-2010, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Rockntractor

I had better get that patented right away!:eek:

You joke, but I think it's an interesting dynamic. Another thing is company loyalty. Every company I've worked for expects me to be loyal - aka if a competitor comes along in the middle of a project and wants to double my salary, I am expected not to take that offer. In fact, most of the contracts I've had for a variety of places has a non-compete clause they can invoke.

On the other hand, how many people expect their company to be loyal to them? Never, if you are doing a bad job you expect the company to fire you. But if the company is doing a bad job, you are expected to stick around.

At least in creative industries, I notice this trend is increasing.

**Rockntractor** · 12-06-2010, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by m00

You joke, but I think it's an interesting dynamic. Another thing is company loyalty. Every company I've worked for expects me to be loyal - aka if a competitor comes along in the middle of a project and wants to double my salary, I am expected not to take that offer. In fact, most of the contracts I've had for a variety of places has a non-compete clause they can invoke.

On the other hand, how many people expect their company to be loyal to them? Never, if you are doing a bad job you expect the company to fire you. But if the company is doing a bad job, you are expected to stick around.

At least in creative industries, I notice this trend is increasing.

I have several patents for measuring machines and holding fixtures that I designed for the JDAM project that are owned by the air force now. I got my wages and a pat on the back, oh well.

**Gingersnap** · 12-06-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by PoliCon

Unions have promoted the idea that the employers owe the employees more than just their pay and they have instilled the idea of work only as hard as you must to get payed because if you work harder you make other people look bad.

No, sick time and vacation time (as we know it today) along with health care were incentives used by all employers during WWII to recruit when wages were forcibly stagnant.

Today, these things are part of an employee's total compensation. It's what any of us contract for, union or not. What's wrong here is the parental view of employee leave. Some employers act as though sick leave (or vacation time) can only be taken under the "right" circumstances. You have to be sick enough or worthy enough for a vacation. That's nuts.

While employees need to take company staffing needs into consideration when they take off, if the the schedule is arranged, no other questions need to be asked.

This P.I. stuff seems like it needs to be confined to people abusing FMLA or other programs, not people faking a sick day.

**PoliCon** · 12-06-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by m00

Ah, but employers have promoted the idea that employees own them more than just their work. In my contract (and its a VERY standard contract), for example, if I write a work of fiction on my personal computer on weekends it belongs to my company. If I develop cold fusion in my basement, it belongs to my company.

There is no way I would sign a contract that gave my employer control of anything I produced in my free time - and if I had to - I'd hold any of that work until after the contract ended.

**m00** · 12-06-2010, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by PoliCon

There is no way I would sign a contract that gave my employer control of anything I produced in my free time - and if I had to - I'd hold any of that work until after the contract ended.

In some industries you don't really have a choice. If it's that or being unemployed...

Also, when I say "contract" I mean "employment contract" as in permanent position. Most of the time you can get a waiver (has to be signed by management) for personal side projects as long as they dont compete with the core business, but it's interesting that the default is the company owns everything you do, even if it's in your free time with your own resources.

**PoliCon** · 12-06-2010, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gingersnap

No, sick time and vacation time (as we know it today) along with health care were incentives used by all employers during WWII to recruit when wages were forcibly stagnant.

Today, these things are part of an employee's total compensation. It's what any of us contract for, union or not. What's wrong here is the parental view of employee leave. Some employers act as though sick leave (or vacation time) can only be taken under the "right" circumstances. You have to be sick enough or worthy enough for a vacation. That's nuts.

While employees need to take company staffing needs into consideration when they take off, if the the schedule is arranged, no other questions need to be asked.

This P.I. stuff seems like it needs to be confined to people abusing FMLA or other programs, not people faking a sick day.

The trouble is people tend to take sick time during high volume business times - hence what NJ said about what you need to have in order to call off Superbowl Sunday. Most businesses only care when they know the system is being abused - when they're looking for an excuse - or when people take time off during high volume business time. And why don't these people take a personal day? Or a day off without pay?

**Gingersnap** · 12-07-2010, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by PoliCon

The trouble is people tend to take sick time during high volume business times - hence what NJ said about what you need to have in order to call off Superbowl Sunday. Most businesses only care when they know the system is being abused - when they're looking for an excuse - or when people take time off during high volume business time. And why don't these people take a personal day? Or a day off without pay?

They don't have personal days - that's the problem. When all your leave aside from maternity leave, short-term disability, funeral/adoption leave and leave without pay, is in one pot, you don't have "sick leave" or anything else. Every leave day is a "personal day".

Too many places (and all union places) divvy it up by type. That's wrong. It's not actually "okay" for employers to do a lot of leave-without-pay. Sure, you aren't paying them but the workforce that is left has to suck up all the hours themselves with no hope of relief.

**noonwitch** · 12-07-2010, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by PoliCon

The trouble is people tend to take sick time during high volume business times - hence what NJ said about what you need to have in order to call off Superbowl Sunday. Most businesses only care when they know the system is being abused - when they're looking for an excuse - or when people take time off during high volume business time. And why don't these people take a personal day? Or a day off without pay?

When I worked at K-Mart or Steketee's, there were two days no employee could miss without a very good reason-Black Friday and December 26. K-Mart told us that if we called in on either day, we might as well quit because we were fired.