A frank conversation

[CaughtintheMiddle1990]

I watch Glenn Beck every day he airs...And he claims that the other side (Liberals) are the divisive ones, but he seems to come off divisive himself. In many ways, he's tried splitting Americans into two bitterly divided camps colored by economic and cultural lines. Sometimes, his conclusions are downright ridiculous IMO (for example saying that in 1969 you supported EITHER the Moon Landing or Woodstock--You couldn't have supported both?) He's presented those who are even slightly to the left of him as being evil people who desire to enslave Americans, vile people who want to kill people, etc. It's rather offensive to be called "evil" for your point of view, and I think it degrades our political discourse to a base level, and only fans the flames of long seated divisions over the various issues. He over generalizes people greatly--to him either a person, or group is entirely evil, or entirely good.

Conservatives see Liberals as communists who want to kill babies and put people in FEMA camps. I consider myself a Liberal--Not a post 1968 liberal, but a Liberal in the older vein.

I don't believe in abortion. I believe in border control. I don't believe in legalizing hard drugs. I support simply a system of social welfare, and some regulation on the various industries. I don't support the government bailing out or controlling industries, simply the government overseeing them and keeping them in check. I am probably to the left of most here, but I do not see myself as a Communist, or a Socialist, having studied both systems. I love this country, and I don't want to

I don't see those I disagree with politically as evil, or as horrible people. I view them simply as people who have a different interpretation on the role of government than I do. I think generalizing (ON BOTH SIDES) people we disagree with or ideologies we disagree with as evil, claiming those people want to kill people, etc etc is very dangerous to the health and unity of our Republic.

I personally don't want to see another Civil War in my lifetime; That war was a trgaedy with the blood of so many young men shed over what could have been solved with peace and understanding and I feel with forces both, to quote Beck (well, the radicals he quotes anyway), "top down" (Obama's administration) and "bottom up" (People in the media like Olbermann, Beck), dividing us further and further, and making us hate and be afraid of each other--I just worry that it will come to a point wherein we become two angry nations deeply at odds with each other in one.

I may be a Liberal; I may be a Catholic; I may be of Italian ancestry; I may be a man who loves eating; but above all of these things, I am American, and that comes first.

I do not intend this either as a "Kumb-by-yah" thread, nor as a partisan thread. I just hope it comes off as a common sense thread--Something wherein we can recognize that the rhetoric coming from both sides--is a little over the top. I like all of you here, and even if I disagree vehemently with your political opinions, you are just as American as I am, and I appreciate your company.

[Ranger Rick]

I am called "evil" nightly by the MSM and by the president of the United states. Sorry to hear you are bothered by it.

Reading the rest of it, what make you think you are "liberal"?

[BadCat]

Maybe when you get a bit older you will realize what many of us already know...

The modern liberal left, the Dimocrat politicians and their apostles - are the biggest threat to this country, as big a threat as Izlamic terrorists and Soviet era communists.

For them, this is a WAR, people like you don't realize it, or won't recognize it for what it is, but it is a war.

I don't intend to be on the losing side.

[NJCardFan]

Beck is 100% correct in his assertion of the modern Democratic Party. One of the most affective ways to defeat your enemy is to infect it from within. What the KGB couldn't do, Obama, Pelosi, and the rest of that cast of idiots are doing with relative ease.

[Apache]

I watch Glenn Beck every day he airs...And he claims that the other side (Liberals) are the divisive ones, but he seems to come off divisive himself. In many ways, he's tried splitting Americans into two bitterly divided camps colored by economic and cultural lines. Sometimes, his conclusions are downright ridiculous IMO (for example saying that in 1969 you supported EITHER the Moon Landing or Woodstock--You couldn't have supported both?) He's presented those who are even slightly to the left of him as being evil people who desire to enslave Americans, vile people who want to kill people, etc. It's rather offensive to be called "evil" for your point of view, and I think it degrades our political discourse to a base level, and only fans the flames of long seated divisions over the various issues. He over generalizes people greatly--to him either a person, or group is entirely evil, or entirely good.

Conservatives see Liberals as communists who want to kill babies and put people in FEMA camps. I consider myself a Liberal--Not a post 1968 liberal, but a Liberal in the older vein.

I don't believe in abortion. I believe in border control. I don't believe in legalizing hard drugs. I support simply a system of social welfare, and some regulation on the various industries. I don't support the government bailing out or controlling industries, simply the government overseeing them and keeping them in check. I am probably to the left of most here, but I do not see myself as a Communist, or a Socialist, having studied both systems. I love this country, and I don't want to

I don't see those I disagree with politically as evil, or as horrible people. I view them simply as people who have a different interpretation on the role of government than I do. I think generalizing (ON BOTH SIDES) people we disagree with or ideologies we disagree with as evil, claiming those people want to kill people, etc etc is very dangerous to the health and unity of our Republic.

I personally don't want to see another Civil War in my lifetime; That war was a trgaedy with the blood of so many young men shed over what could have been solved with peace and understanding and I feel with forces both, to quote Beck (well, the radicals he quotes anyway), "top down" (Obama's administration) and "bottom up" (People in the media like Olbermann, Beck), dividing us further and further, and making us hate and be afraid of each other--I just worry that it will come to a point wherein we become two angry nations deeply at odds with each other in one.

I may be a Liberal; I may be a Catholic; I may be of Italian ancestry; I may be a man who loves eating; but above all of these things, I am American, and that comes first.

I do not intend this either as a "Kumb-by-yah" thread, nor as a partisan thread. I just hope it comes off as a common sense thread--Something wherein we can recognize that the rhetoric coming from both sides--is a little over the top. I like all of you here, and even if I disagree vehemently with your political opinions, you are just as American as I am, and I appreciate your company.

So you don't mind being told what to do? You don't mind being told that our best days have passed? You don't mind working, to attain a goal that is not your own?

[Wei Wu Wei]

A good thread.

I watch Glenn Beck every day he airs...

Me too, well most days. I make sure to DVR it.

And he claims that the other side (Liberals) are the divisive ones, but he seems to come off divisive himself. In many ways, he's tried splitting Americans into two bitterly divided camps colored by economic and cultural lines. Sometimes, his conclusions are downright ridiculous IMO (for example saying that in 1969 you supported EITHER the Moon Landing or Woodstock--You couldn't have supported both?) He's presented those who are even slightly to the left of him as being evil people who desire to enslave Americans, vile people who want to kill people, etc. It's rather offensive to be called "evil" for your point of view, and I think it degrades our political discourse to a base level, and only fans the flames of long seated divisions over the various issues. He over generalizes people greatly--to him either a person, or group is entirely evil, or entirely good.

Lol this is all true. Keep in mind though that his job is first and foremost to get ratings. He does this extremely well, after all, we both watch his show. Controversy gets attention, conflict gets attention. His job is to increase Ad revenue for Fox News and Newscorp by generating ratings, and this is how he does it. This works on the MSNBC too, they don't focus on the root issues or have important discussions about anything, it's just the same divisive garbage because their jobs are the same.

Conservatives see Liberals as communists who want to kill babies and put people in FEMA camps. I consider myself a Liberal--Not a post 1968 liberal, but a Liberal in the older vein.

There is a huge distinction between Liberals and Leftists (which includes marxists, communists, progressives, ect.)

Liberals are pro-capitalism, pro-tolerance towards minorities, pro-welfare state, ect.

My problem with liberalism is that while Liberals are genuinely trying to help alleviate the problems in society, they focus too much after the fact, trying to bandage the problems rather than examining the causes of the problems themselves. For example, they want to have a welfare safety net for the poor rather than understanding how our economic and social relations cause poverty. They want to have better unemployment benefits without realizing that some people benefit from having medium unemployment and the system tends to preserve it. They want to have greater cultural and religious tolerance without understanding how racial antagonisms come into existence to begin with (an example of how is the Split Labor Market Theory of Ethnic Antagonism). Ect. Ect. Ect.

Leftists, on the other hand, look towards social structures and economic systems to see how the material relations between people causes the conditions for racism, misogyny, poverty, and crime to flourish. Leftists seek to address these material causes to prevent mass problems from arising so that weak liberalism and welfare state power doesn't have to be used (at least not as much).

I don't believe in abortion. I believe in border control. I don't believe in legalizing hard drugs. I support simply a system of social welfare, and some regulation on the various industries. I don't support the government bailing out or controlling industries, simply the government overseeing them and keeping them in check. I am probably to the left of most here, but I do not see myself as a Communist, or a Socialist, having studied both systems. I love this country, and I don't want to

You sound like a solid liberal-centrist. However, I believe that it's important to never stick a label on yourself because once you identify with a label it's extremely hard to let go of it, regardless of what reason suggests. At the very base of your beliefs, I think it's important to have an honest I don't know and accept everything as simply your theory of how things work. Theories work by having that "I don't know" at their base, theories work because they constantly change. Never be unwilling to examine your presuppositions. Ideally, in my opinion, you should never settle down and think you know the truth. Ironically, the most certain thing in the world is fundamental Doubt. If you allow yourself to doubt and use reason to guide you, you will never find "the answer", but you'll always be moving towards it.

As for communism or socialism, perhaps you've studied them, you seem to have the basics down. However, never think you know everything about an ideology. I don't think I know everything about conservatism, which is why I want to talk to conservatives and listen to conservatives a lot.

I don't see those I disagree with politically as evil, or as horrible people. I view them simply as people who have a different interpretation on the role of government than I do.

I agree. I think that's a really basic root disagreement.

I think generalizing (ON BOTH SIDES) people we disagree with or ideologies we disagree with as evil, claiming those people want to kill people, etc etc is very dangerous to the health and unity of our Republic.

Exactly. many people get a sense of team spirit or belonging to a group because they identify with an ideology, and part of being in a team is having Others who are not part of your team. In order to keep this stable in their minds (their group identity), people will often get angry with someone just because they represent "The Other Team".

This is instinctual and it's built into all of us but we shouldn't let it overtake our rationality and you sound like you put more emphasis on your reason than your animal instincts, which is good imo.

I personally don't want to see another Civil War in my lifetime; That war was a trgaedy with the blood of so many young men shed over what could have been solved with peace and understanding and I feel with forces both, to quote Beck (well, the radicals he quotes anyway), "top down" (Obama's administration) and "bottom up" (People in the media like Olbermann, Beck), dividing us further and further, and making us hate and be afraid of each other--I just worry that it will come to a point wherein we become two angry nations deeply at odds with each other in one.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, despite our many differences I think if we just talk even the most far right and far left people could find they have a lot in common.

I may be a Liberal; I may be a Catholic; I may be of Italian ancestry; I may be a man who loves eating; but above all of these things, I am American, and that comes first.

I do not intend this either as a "Kumb-by-yah" thread, nor as a partisan thread. I just hope it comes off as a common sense thread--Something wherein we can recognize that the rhetoric coming from both sides--is a little over the top. I like all of you here, and even if I disagree vehemently with your political opinions, you are just as American as I am, and I appreciate your company.

This is common sense, but sometimes people on this forum are downright nasty and vile, it is always refreshing when people are civil, like yourself. Glad you're here bud.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Maybe when you get a bit older you will realize what many of us already know...

The modern liberal left, the Dimocrat politicians and their apostles - are the biggest threat to this country, as big a threat as Izlamic terrorists and Soviet era communists.

For them, this is a WAR, people like you don't realize it, or won't recognize it for what it is, but it is a war.

I don't intend to be on the losing side.

The world certainly seems like a hostile place when you choose to greet it with a gun.

(metaphorically speaking I know no one is shooting anyone here)

[Jfor]

What has Glenn Beck said that is wrong? Weewee... FOAD.

[hampshirebrit]

What has Glenn Beck said that is wrong?

For me, it's not so much what he says.

He cries on air far too frequently.

Sorry, but when I see the same bloke crying on TV more than once, I'm going to have to start questioning either his message or his motives or his masculinity, or possibly all of these things.

[BadCat]

The world certainly seems like a hostile place when you choose to greet it with a gun.

(metaphorically speaking I know no one is shooting anyone here)

The world is a hostile place, weewee.