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  1. #11  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Nothing wrong with that. Better then what you folks think will happen to us. ;)
    I'm being mean!:D
    How is obama working out for you?
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post

    Is that not analogous to the scientific position on spirituality?
    No, not at all. It's actually a piss-poor attempt at such an analogy ... and that's about the best I can say about it.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    No, not at all. It's actually a piss-poor attempt at such an analogy ... and that's about the best I can say about it.
    and people wonder why I like Brits....:p
    Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.
    Ronald Reagan

    We could say they are spending like drunken sailors. That would be unfair to drunken sailors, they're spending their OWN money.
    Ronald Reagan

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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    I find that many atheists have interesting ways of conveying what they consider to be the silliness of religious believe. I find many of their examples and metaphors to fall short, preferring a simplistic idea of God that is easy to discount.

    I'm sure most are familiar with the idea of Flatland, a 2D world often used to explain higher dimensional movement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4

    Starting with a 0-dimensional point, you can move up a dimension by moving away from that point.

    Here you have a 1-dimensional line. In this direction, there are only 2 directions, forward and backward. There is no such thing as width, it's nonsense in this dimension. However, to move up a dimension, the idea is similar: you must move in a direction that takes you further away from every point on the line, simultaneously. This cannot be done by moving forward or backwards, because any motion in those directions would bring you further from some points and closer to others. In order to move away from every point at once, you'd have to move sideways.

    This creates a brand new dimension, what we know as width. if we equally fill in the space between all the points we want with a finite length, we end up with a 2 dimensional Circle. Here we have a 2-dimensional figure.

    Again, a similar move can be made to jump up into the inconceivable-to-a-flat-lander 3rd dimension. Starting at the center of the circle, you have to move in a direction that takes you away from every point on/in the circle simultaneously. there is no direction like this in 2 dimensions, and it requires the mind-blowing jump up a dimension, as illustrated in the flatland example.


    So here we are in 3 dimensions. 3 or 4 when you consider time as a function of space.


    Now, if we were all 2 dimensional, and someone spoke of a 3rd dimension we'd think they are crazy. If they said that through this direction that cannot be explained, they are able to have knowledge of everything, inside and out, albeit in a way that is almost impossible to explain in a 2-dimensional framework. This direction would allow for incredible insights and self-knowledge, even though it would be impossible in 2-dimensions. A scientific community that looks only at empirical, measurable reality would totally miss the "extra" dimension, because the reality they know lacks any tools or even reference points for this extra dimension: there simply is no such thing as "up".


    Imagine that spirituality functions is a similar way, perhaps through prayer, meditation, or other spiritual practices, one can experience another dimension of reality, one that allows movement towards and away from everything that exists, simultaneously. One that offers insight, foresight, and self-understanding in a way that is simply incomprehensible in our rigid empirical understanding of our world-as-we-experience it.

    If you asked a flatlander about the scientific plausibility of a third dimension, they'd say it's nonsense that can only be taken by weak faith, as opposed to empiricism and rationality which explains their 2-dimensional world perfectly and consistently.

    Is that not analogous to the scientific position on spirituality?


    Some more to come.....

    For me, quantum physics and the like kind of "prove" that at the very least there is a LOT about this universe and existence which we don't understand and that there is some sort of force which drives existence. Whether this force is a "God" in the common sense, I don't know, but I do feel the universe was created by something, something presence, force, willpower or being, greater than our understanding. All of man's religions are simply attempts at understanding said force/willpower/being on our terms. Interpretations, basically.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    Yaaay.

    GO CU ATHEISTS :D
    I.E- - - Atheists that aren't assholes! :D

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    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Nothing wrong with that. Better then what you folks think will happen to us. ;)
    You have a choice in that. You could exercise the same faith you profess for atheism toward God's Son. Then, your eternity would be assured.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
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    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    You have a choice in that. You could exercise the same faith you profess for atheism toward God's Son. Then, your eternity would be assured.
    Paying lip service just to cover my bases isn't going to cut it when that final decision comes.

    I do not believe, and that will probably never change.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Paying lip service just to cover my bases isn't going to cut it when that final decision comes.

    I do not believe, and that will probably never change.
    You yourself said you were exercising faith that you did not believe. What is the harm in exercising that faith toward believing?
    Read Mark 9:24, "Lord I believe, help thou my unbelief."
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
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  9. #19  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    You yourself said you were exercising faith that you did not believe. What is the harm in exercising that faith toward believing?
    Read Mark 9:24, "Lord I believe, help thou my unbelief."
    Because I DON'T believe in God. I BELIEVE he does not exist. It's like your saying whats the big deal about black suddenly deciding to become white.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  10. #20  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    If an atheist opens gifts on Dec 25th they are still celebrating the birthday of my Lord, thank you! :)
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