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  1. #131  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Since I know that you're not actually clinically insane (unlike Herr Gator), allow me to say that those who you characterize as "Neo-Cons" are not indifferent to the effects of war, and the unintended consequences. We simply disagree as to the nature of the threat and its extent. Don't pull a Gator and assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a monster or a fool.
    Me suggesting someone doesn't care amounts to neither assumption. Those not caring may not be a monster, and a fool is up for debate, but doesn't mean I believer either. Maybe ignorant.

    Unlike others that throw the "Neville Chamberlin" and "Isolationist" meme about because they're too intellectually lazy to debate the issue....it's not crazy, nor is there no historical model and evidence, for some to believe that less makes for a stronger and better defense.

    There are still (to a lesser extent these days) and were some great military men who weren't simply caught up in the "how" to manage a military, but they also had the moral fortitude to ask "why" and "if" it was prudent.

    Talk of imminent threat to our national security through the application of external force is pure nonsense…. Indeed, it is a part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear. While such an economy may produce a sense of seeming prosperity for the moment, it rests on an illusionary foundation of complete unreliability and renders among our political leaders almost a greater fear of peace than is their fear of war - General Douglas McArthur
    The Neoconservatives know quite well who and what they are. They don't try to obfuscate it and gladly take on the moniker. They also don't give two pisses who's in power..right or left. They like Obama and Hillary Clinton as much as Bush.

    I guess if you think preemptive war is a good thing, a powerful federal government, endorse intervention abroad, believe being neutral is a sign of weakness or bad policy, think using American military is a good idea to promote "the American way", think guys like Robert Kagan and Michael Leedon speak wisdom, and if you think Project for a New American Century is a great think tank....then you may have to do a soul check.

    You once said in another thread you did not espouse Neoconservatism..., so I must take you for what you say.
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  2. #132  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    I guess if you think preemptive war is a good thing, a powerful federal government, endorse intervention abroad, believe being neutral is a sign of weakness or bad policy, think using American military is a good idea to promote "the American way", think guys like Robert Kagan and Michael Leedon speak wisdom, and if you think Project for a New American Century is a great think tank....then you may have to do a soul check.

    You once said in another thread you did not espouse Neoconservatism..., so I must take you for what you say.
    The thing that makes NeoCon's so dangerous and destructive to the US is that 99.999% of the time "preemtive" is really not and that it is nothing more than weak ass justification for interventionism for other reasons like to kiss the ass of foreign loybbists or whatever.

    Iraq was a great example. The NeoCons will swear up and down that all the goodamn evil Muslims in the world, led by the 12th Inman or something were going to destroy the US unless Saddam and his many weapons of mass destruction were removed.

    Of course there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction and Saddam ran a mostly secular government and he was no real threat to the US and had nothing to do with 911 but it was a honest to goodness goddamn "preemtive" invasion to make America free.
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  3. #133  
    PORCUS STAPHUS ADMIN Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    The thing that makes NeoCon's so dangerous and destructive to the US is that 99.999% of the time "preemtive" is really not and that it is nothing more than weak ass justification for interventionism for other reasons like to kiss the ass of foreign loybbists or whatever.

    Iraq was a great example. The NeoCons will swear up and down that all the goodamn evil Muslims in the world, led by the 12th Inman or something were going to destroy the US unless Saddam and his many weapons of mass destruction were removed.

    Of course there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction and Saddam ran a mostly secular government and he was no real threat to the US and had nothing to do with 911 but it was a honest to goodness goddamn "preemtive" invasion to make America free.
    The whole site is full of Neocons and we are all out to get you! Run Gator run!

    :eek:
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  4. #134  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    The whole site is full of Neocons and we are all out to get you! Run Gator run!

    :eek:
    I was planning to quit posting for a few months after hitting 26,000 posts so maybe I can go and hide under my bed for awhile so the NeoCons won't get me.
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  5. #135  
    PORCUS STAPHUS ADMIN Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    I was planning to quit posting for a few months after hitting 26,000 posts so maybe I can go and hide under my bed for awhile so the NeoCons won't get me.
    :D
    "If the Bible is true why don't we have any urns or vessels that like say expires 6/15/300 BC on the bottom?"
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  6. #136  
    Senior Member Tecate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    The thing that makes NeoCon's so dangerous and destructive to the US is that 99.999% of the time "preemtive" is really not and that it is nothing more than weak ass justification for interventionism for other reasons like to kiss the ass of foreign loybbists or whatever.

    Iraq was a great example. The NeoCons will swear up and down that all the goodamn evil Muslims in the world, led by the 12th Inman or something were going to destroy the US unless Saddam and his many weapons of mass destruction were removed.

    Of course there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction and Saddam ran a mostly secular government and he was no real threat to the US and had nothing to do with 911 but it was a honest to goodness goddamn "preemtive" invasion to make America free.
    We won't even guard our own damn Southern border while we fight trillion dollar wars on the other side of the world in the name of "keeping America safe".

    It's just a matter of time before these drug cartel wars begin spilling into the streets of major cities on this side of the border.
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  7. #137  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecate View Post
    We won't even guard our own damn Southern border while we fight trillion dollar wars with money we borrow from China, or future generations on the other side of the world in the name of "keeping America safe".
    Fixed. :p

    You know what I think would keep America safe? Not wrecking our country to fight wars that will probably spawn a whole new generation of dictators, madmen, and terrorists we'll have to fight in 20 years.

    So one thing about Saddam that people forget is that he was secular. His government was secular. Saddam was an evil bastard, but he wasn't a radicalized Muslim and he didn't believe in global jihad and 72 virgins in paradise.

    So now we have a democratic Iraq. That's great, but 65% of the population are shi'ite. Who do people think issue all the fatwas against the United States? Any bets as to whether Iraq will elect an Islamic Theocracy the instant we withdraw? Any bets as to whether such an event will be more or less dangerous to our safety than Saddam? Law of unintended consequences.

    It's just a matter of time before these drug cartel wars begin spilling into the streets of major cities on this side of the border.
    Well, I suspect our resident NeoCons won't say a word about this until the marching orders come down telling them what opinion to hold.
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  8. #138  
    PORCUS STAPHUS ADMIN Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    I was planning to quit posting for a few months after hitting 26,000 posts so maybe I can go and hide under my bed for awhile so the NeoCons won't get me.
    Funny how things work out.
    "If the Bible is true why don't we have any urns or vessels that like say expires 6/15/300 BC on the bottom?"
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  9. #139  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    We can do better than NeoCon and Liberals.
    I don't know how we could do worse.

    I've been living abroad for about 5 years now, and I come back to the US to visit family and friends during the holidays. I have lived in 3 countries outside the US. Every time I return to the US it feels less and less like a free country, where individualism is a value and the government exists to serve the people and not the other way around. America has taken the slow road to a centrally planned economy and rampant government authority for a long time due to the stupid assholes who run the country. These stupid assholes and the even stupider assholes who vote for them are far more a threat to Americans than Saddam ever was. I feel more free in fucking French Canada than I do in the US. How shitty is that?

    On edit: didn't see Gator was banned. :p
    Last edited by m00; 01-15-2011 at 02:08 AM.
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