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  1. #1 Israel rallies to support of Egyptian regime 
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Israel has rallied to the support of President Hosni Mubarak by allowing Egyptian troops into the Sinai peninsula for the first time since a peace deal was signed in 1979.

    The concession came as it emerged that Israel had privately urged Western governments to end their criticism of Mr Mubarak as he struggles to quell a popular uprising against him.

    The United States and its allies were initially supportive of the Egyptian leader, but have signalled a shift in allegiance to his critics as the protests have gathered pace.

    Israel, however, has shown fewer qualms about backing Egypt's president of 30 years, fearing his overthrow could presage the rise of an Islamist regime and the end of one of the Jewish state's most important strategic alliances.

    Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, has instructed ministers to make no public comment on events in Egypt. But his ambassadors abroad were instructed to plead with the governments of major powers to be more supportive of Mr Mubarak. Mr Netanyahu on Monday said he was following events in Egypt with “vigilance and worry” and that he feared the country could be led by a radical Islamic regime like that in Iran.

    The decision to allow two Egyptian battalions to deploy against protesters in Sinai, which has been demilitarised since Israel’s withdrawal from the territory after the Camp David accords of 1978, is a reflection of Mr Netanyahu’s mounting concern.


    Full story at Daily Telegraph

    Very worrying situation. Looks like Israel is the only nation that fully understands what might happen post Mubarak.
    Last edited by bijou; 01-31-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    I am not sure having Israel publicly on your side helps you as a Arab leader.
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    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I am not sure having Israel publicly on your side helps you as a Arab leader.
    All depends on how many tanks you have that you can use against your own people.

    Given that some of those people are whackjob fundementalists, and given that Mubarak has done a good job keeping them locked up until the last week or so, support from any country is probably welcome, even Israel.
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    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    All depends on how many tanks you have that you can use against your own people.
    That should endear him to the citizens of his nation, assuming the military goes along with it (I have my doubts they will but the elevation to Vice President one of their own may be a sign).

    Given that some of those people are whackjob fundementalists, and given that Mubarak has done a good job keeping them locked up until the last week or so, support from any country is probably welcome, even Israel.
    In his zeal to lock up so-called wackjob fundementalists, who have found a way to stay stubbornly un-locked up for several years, he may have swept up mere secular political opposition occassionally. By mistake, I'm sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    That should endear him to the citizens of his nation, assuming the military goes along with it (I have my doubts they will but the elevation to Vice President one of their own may be a sign).
    The Egyptian army holds a privileged place in their society, and one which would be lost if the Islamists take over. Some of them may go over to the Ikwan, but I suspect that the majority will remain in the ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    In his zeal to lock up so-called wackjob fundementalists, who have found a way to stay stubbornly un-locked up for several years, he may have swept up mere secular political opposition occassionally. By mistake, I'm sure.
    Mubarak has played both the carrot and the stick with the Islamists. He had extended an amnesty a few years ago, which freed a lot of the leadership of the Brotherhood from prison, and permitted opposition parties to run candidates for the legislature. The amnesty appears to have backfired big time.
    --Odysseus
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    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, after a crisis that shuffles the political paradigm, countries tend to embrace fascist or fascist-esque movements such as religious fundamentalism if they do not have a strong organized leftist voice as well as a strong liberal voice.

    This means educated socialists and educated liberal secular capitalists.

    Without these, it is very likely that in a relatively short period of time fascists will rise to power using anti-immigrant, nationalistic, and "back to the roots" rhetoric.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Unfortunately, after a crisis that shuffles the political paradigm, countries tend to embrace fascist or fascist-esque movements such as religious fundamentalism if they do not have a strong organized leftist voice as well as a strong liberal voice.

    This means educated socialists and educated liberal secular capitalists.

    Without these, it is very likely that in a relatively short period of time fascists will rise to power using anti-immigrant, nationalistic, and "back to the roots" rhetoric.
    Yes of course, there aren't enough leftist nutjobs over there!
    Go help them Wei, Egypt needs you.
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    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    When I say leftist I don't mean "anyone who doesn't watch Bill O' Reilly or drive a John Deere to work", i'm talking about actual organized educated socialists
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  9. #9  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    America's support for the current regime as well as Israels displays something interesting about today's politics.

    Clearly, those in power support stability in the region far more than they do democracy or freedom or rights for the people who live there.

    However, today they are overt about it. We can support what is clearly an undemocratic, oppressive regime, without having to justify it with anything more than "it is better for our own interests".

    In the days of the Cold War, it wasn't enough to support oppression and fight the people trying to establish communism in their communities, no it wasn't enough to simply say "this is their fight, but it is in our best interests to take the wrong side". No, in the Cold War, it was necessary to convince everyone that it wasn't just that they could be a threat to us, but that their very movement, the very idea of their form of freedom was a threat to us.

    It wasn't just that "this is best for our interests", but an even stronger "this is what is Right".

    This would be like saying today that we and Israel support the current Egypt regime because the people are wrong and their ideas are bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  10. #10  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    When I say leftist I don't mean "anyone who doesn't watch Bill O' Reilly or drive a John Deere to work", i'm talking about actual organized educated socialists
    Egypt has enough trained murderers and torturers. They don't need organized educated socialists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    America's support for the current regime as well as Israels displays something interesting about today's politics.

    Clearly, those in power support stability in the region far more than they do democracy or freedom or rights for the people who live there.

    However, today they are overt about it. We can support what is clearly an undemocratic, oppressive regime, without having to justify it with anything more than "it is better for our own interests".

    In the days of the Cold War, it wasn't enough to support oppression and fight the people trying to establish communism in their communities, no it wasn't enough to simply say "this is their fight, but it is in our best interests to take the wrong side". No, in the Cold War, it was necessary to convince everyone that it wasn't just that they could be a threat to us, but that their very movement, the very idea of their form of freedom was a threat to us.

    It wasn't just that "this is best for our interests", but an even stronger "this is what is Right".

    This would be like saying today that we and Israel support the current Egypt regime because the people are wrong and their ideas are bad.
    No, we're supporting an "undemocratic, oppressive regime" because what will replace it will be an even more undemocratic, oppressive regime, and one that will seek to export its brand of undemocratic oppression to every nation that it can. It will devote its resources to murder on a scale that dwarfs anything happening now in Egypt. In other words, we are trying to avoid the replacement of an old, syphilitic junkard dog with a younger, rabid junkyard dog.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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