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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Psssstt....

    New York is not Hawaii. The Hawaiian law is crystal clear: COLB is what you get. Period.
    Psst,

    I know. COLB is a statement that a live birth has occurred. It doesn't prove anything else. He may have been born there, but the stupid thing is O Blah Blah is letting this continue. I too have a COLB. I also have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. I was born in Germany in 1958. O Blah Blah was born "somewhere" in 1961.

    If I can get it and HAD to show it to join the military, surely the Commander in Chief of that military should be required to show his.

    Now before anybody tries a lame attempt to label me as a "birther," I believe he was born in Hawaii.

    My problem is why the POTUS is acting like a juvenile and allowing this question to go unanswered? He is the president and he is able to get anything else. Why is he stymied by the 50th state in getting a certified copy of what any citizen can get with a small fee? He has spent millions keeping it hidden,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,WHY?
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Psst,

    I know. COLB is a statement that a live birth has occurred. It doesn't prove anything else.
    Wrong. A COLB is proof that a birth certificate is on file with that state.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    He may have been born there, but the stupid thing is O Blah Blah is letting this continue.
    How? By following the law in Hawaii? How asinine!

    The law in Hawaii is crystal clear: you get a COLB, and that's it. It is absolute, affirmative legal proof that someone was born in Hawaii. It is what is used to get a passport, which would also be more than sufficient proof of Obama's eligibility to be President.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    I too have a COLB. I also have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. I was born in Germany in 1958. O Blah Blah was born "somewhere" in 1961.
    He was born in Hawaii. My guess is that you do not have a birth certificate, but instead a statement from either the State Department or from the Standesamt of where your parents were living at the time you were born. Original birth certificates are not generally given out in Western countries, but instead are kept on file with the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    If I can get it and HAD to show it to join the military, surely the Commander in Chief of that military should be required to show his.
    The military may have required you to show your German birth record because you were born in Germany, but it most definitely is not a requirement to have a long-form birth certificate in order to join the military. Hawaii is not unique in their stance of only issuing COLBs, and I had friends in high school who joined the military using only their COLB, not a long form.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    My problem is why the POTUS is acting like a juvenile and allowing this question to go unanswered? He is the president and he is able to get anything else. Why is he stymied by the 50th state in getting a certified copy of what any citizen can get with a small fee? He has spent millions keeping it hidden,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,WHY?
    He is stymied by the law, which is quite clear and unambiguous. And no, not any citizen can get a long form with a small fee. No one else who was born in Hawaii can get a long form, either. They ALL get COLBs, which is certified by the state with a raised seal, JUST LIKE what Obama has. It's been that way since 1977. This is hardly somehow new and unique to Obama. This is a bunch of people living in denial because they don't want Obama to be President.

    Also, Obama has not spent any money "keeping it hidden." That's simply untrue.


    I don't like the guy. I think he's an incompetent, corrupt boob who is still bungling his way around the White House, now in his third year of being President. I think that there are all sorts of unanswered questions about his past that the public has a moral right to know about their President, such as his time at the Harvard Law Review. But the plain and simple fact is that he HAS provided the proof that he was born in Hawaii that the state provides to everyone who is born in that state. It's satisfactory proof for a passport. It's satisfactory proof to get a driver's license. It's satisfactory proof to sign up for the military. And whether anyone likes it or not, it's satisfactory proof that someone is eligible to be President.

    Continuing to chase this idiotic windmill in the face of all of the facts is just stoopid. Question the other stuff all day long, and I certainly think it needs to be looked into, but this birth certificate business is just a complete and total waste of everyone's time and it completely de-legitimizes the actual legitimate questions that people have about his past.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
     

  3. #23  
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Wrong. A COLB is proof that a birth certificate is on file with that state.
    And that a @$#% Birth has occurred with elements of that information taken from the ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AS FILLED OUT BY THE Fing DOCTOR.

    How? By following the law in Hawaii? How asinine!
    The law in Hawaii is crystal clear: you get a COLB, and that's it. It is absolute, affirmative legal proof that someone was born in Hawaii. It is what is used to get a passport, which would also be more than sufficient proof of Obama's eligibility to be President.
    Nice that he folllows at least "some" laws, even if only when convenient for him.
    He was born in Hawaii. My guess is that you do not have a birth certificate, but instead a statement from either the State Department or from the Standesamt of where your parents were living at the time you were born. Original birth certificates are not generally given out in Western countries, but instead are kept on file with the government. The military may have required you to show your German birth record because you were born in Germany, but it most definitely is not a requirement to have a long-form birth certificate in order to join the military. Hawaii is not unique in their stance of only issuing COLBs, and I had friends in high school who joined the military using only their COLB, not a long form.
    And your "guess" would be wrong. My Birth Certificate has little quaint idiosyncrasies like German words on it and every thing.
    I was REQUIRED to show a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and a certificate of birth born abroad before I joined the military. Your buddy's experience doesn't change the FACT of my enlistment.

    He is stymied by the law, which is quite clear and unambiguous. And no, not any citizen can get a long form with a small fee. No one else who was born in Hawaii can get a long form, either. They ALL get COLBs, which is certified by the state with a raised seal, JUST LIKE what Obama has. It's been that way since 1977. This is hardly somehow new and unique to Obama. This is a bunch of people living in denial because they don't want Obama to be President.
    Or maybe a bunch of people who want to know if an American citizen is occupying the White House? It could be a non-issue. It could be significant. You fall on the see no evil side. Fine. Your opinion is noted, Let others have their opinion as well.
    Also, Obama has not spent any money "keeping it hidden." That's simply untrue.
    Wrong. He has spent millions keeping his records sealed. He may not have had to spend a dime of those millions on his birht certificate as "Hawaiian law" has his back on that record. The rest of his records are beyond reach due to high priced lawyers costing him millions to date.
    I don't like the guy. I think he's an incompetent, corrupt boob who is still bungling his way around the White House, now in his third year of being President. I think that there are all sorts of unanswered questions about his past that the public has a moral right to know about their President, such as his time at the Harvard Law Review. But the plain and simple fact is that he HAS provided the proof that he was born in Hawaii that the state provides to everyone who is born in that state. It's satisfactory proof for a passport. It's satisfactory proof to get a driver's license. It's satisfactory proof to sign up for the military. And whether anyone likes it or not, it's satisfactory proof that someone is eligible to be President.
    You may be right. I find it strange that the POTUS cannot get or does not have a certified copy of their birth certificate. If it became Hawaii law in 1977 as you claim, his grandparents/mom et cetera had 16 years to acquire a copy.
    Continuing to chase this idiotic windmill in the face of all of the facts is just stoopid. Question the other stuff all day long, and I certainly think it needs to be looked into, but this birth certificate business is just a complete and total waste of everyone's time and it completely de-legitimizes the actual legitimate questions that people have about his past.
    A fair OPINION. However, if somebody wishes to pursue this it is their choice. The "wasting their time" meme is silly. There are plenty of people to look into his other questionable and shady past. It isn't like there is a shortage of people.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
     

  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    And that a @$#% Birth has occurred with elements of that information taken from the ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AS FILLED OUT BY THE Fing DOCTOR.
    That's right, and that it's all on file with the state of Hawaii. They don't just go around handing out COLBs without the actual document to back it up.

    The original birth certificate is there. The COLB is proof of that. It's really not that hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    And your "guess" would be wrong. My Birth Certificate has little quaint idiosyncrasies like German words on it and every thing.
    I was REQUIRED to show a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and a certificate of birth born abroad before I joined the military. Your buddy's experience doesn't change the FACT of my enlistment.
    I never questioned that you had to show your German documentation. I pointed out that your situation is different from most. The military accepts COLBs from the fifty states all day every day for people who are enlisting. They do not require the long form birth certificate.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Or maybe a bunch of people who want to know if an American citizen is occupying the White House?
    They already do. The COLB is proof that he was born in Hawaii. The standard for Obama is no different than the standard for every other native-born Hawaiian.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    It could be a non-issue.
    It IS a non-issue. He has already provided the paperwork to prove it. Anyone else in the world who wanted the proof for themselves could have it also for $10 and two postage stamps.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    It could be significant.
    Not really. The proof has already been presented.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    You fall on the see no evil side. Fine. Your opinion is noted, Let others have their opinion as well.
    No, I fall to the "the facts have been presented and are indisputable by any sane person" side.

    People are entitled to their own opinions. They're not entitled to ignore the facts while spewing those uninformed opinions without getting their ass handed to them with those very same facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Wrong. He has spent millions keeping his records sealed. He may not have had to spend a dime of those millions on his birht certificate as "Hawaiian law" has his back on that record.
    Exactly, although you seem to think that because the law doesn't let you demand any damn thing you want, that somehow changes matters. It doesn't. You claimed that he has spent millions of dollars keeping the birth certificate hidden. He hasn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    The rest of his records are beyond reach due to high priced lawyers costing him millions to date.
    And THAT is certainly worthy of question. The birth certificate, however, is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    You may be right. I find it strange that the POTUS cannot get or does not have a certified copy of their birth certificate.
    Why? Why on earth is that strange? I'll bet you dimes to dollars that Ronald Reagan did not have a certified copy of his birth certificate. I would not even be surprised if Bush 41 did not have a certified copy of his birth certificate. You know what hangs in the Reagan Library as proof of Ronald Reagan's birth? A COLB, that's what. Produced by the state of Illinois in 1991, it is not one whit different from what Obama produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    If it became Hawaii law in 1977 as you claim, his grandparents/mom et cetera had 16 years to acquire a copy.
    So what? You've never lost anything in your life? I can't even count how many times I've had to go down to the Rachel Jackson state archive building and get a COLB to satisfy a job requirement or whatever. The whole reason that these things stay on file with the state is because people lose them from time to time.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    A fair OPINION. However, if somebody wishes to pursue this it is their choice. The "wasting their time" meme is silly. There are plenty of people to look into his other questionable and shady past. It isn't like there is a shortage of people.
    It IS a waste of time because the FACTS are already known and simply cannot be disputed. A COLB is standard, legal proof of one's birth in the state. Been that way for 34 years now. The simple facts are these:

    • A COLB is the only document that Hawaii will issue as proof of birth
    • The Hawaii health department is barred by law from showing others the original document
    • The Republican governor of Hawaii, exercising her authority as governor, has personally seen the original birth certificate and has publicly authenticated it
    • That very same COLB is completely valid for proof of one's citizenship in order to obtain a passport
    • That very same COLB is completely valid for proof of one's citizenship (and age) in order to join the military
    • That very same COLB is completely valid for proof of one's citizenship in order to obtain a driver's licence in any state or US territory
    • That COLB is the exact same document that every Hawaiian is given as proof of their birth in Hawaii
    • It would have been physically impossible, given flight schedules at the time, for Ann Dunham to have given birth to Barack Obama in Kenya and then gone to Hawaii in order to file a birth certificate for a foreign-born child
    • Ann Dunham was on food stamps and welfare at the time Barack Obama was born, living in an unwed mothers' boarding house. She could not possibly have been able to afford a ticket out of the country, and then back again, in order to give birth to Barack Obama elsewhere
    • Announcements in two local newspapers, taken from birth records given to the state, confirm that Obama was born in Honolulu
    • An eye-witness to the birth has come forward and confirmed the birth (Black baby to a white mother would certainly have been quite memorable in 1961)
    • Anyone who would like confirmation that any birth record on file with the Hawaii Department of Health can send $10 and an SASE and get a certification letter from the state saying that they do indeed have a copy of the birth on file


    No matter how anyone tries to slice it, the man was born in Hawaii, and there's just no changing that simple fact. As much as anyone else, I wish Barack Obama was not the President, that he could somehow be deemed ineligible, and maybe all of this disastrous shit he has done could somehow just be unwound and undone, but the simple fact is that he meets the qualifications set forth under the Constitution: he's over the age of 35, and he was born in the United States.

    Time to move on and focus on other things. And most definitely, it'w well past time to stop making the Right look like a bunch of freaking deluded idiots because some people can't accept simple facts.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
     

  5. #25  
    Senior Member Madisonian's Avatar
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    Over 2 years into his term, I don't care if you had a videotape of Obama popping out of the womb in front of a straw hut with an elephant and a pack of lions chewing on a zebra in the background, that alone will not get him out of office.
    And if it did, do you really want Joe Biden in charge?

    We need to get part the conspiracy theory horse puckey, true or not, and focus on his performance (or lack there of) to make him a one termer. Otherwise we don't sound a lot different than the 9/11 truthers and the facts get lost in the crazy.
     

  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    That's right, and that it's all on file with the state of Hawaii. They don't just go around handing out COLBs without the actual document to back it up.

    The original birth certificate is there. The COLB is proof of that. It's really not that hard.
    I never questioned that you had to show your German documentation. I pointed out that your situation is different from most. The military accepts COLBs from the fifty states all day every day for people who are enlisting. They do not require the long form birth certificate.

    They already do. The COLB is proof that he was born in Hawaii. The standard for Obama is no different than the standard for every other native-born Hawaiian.

    I have a short form birth certificate, because that is what the states now use when you send for a replacement. I once had the original, which had all the information like my mom's maiden name, how many previous pregnancies she had, etc. When I sent for a replacement a few years ago, I got one that looks very much like the one the Obama campaign posted, except the backround on mine was blue instead of green (probably because mine is from Indiana).
     

  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madisonian View Post
    Over 2 years into his term, I don't care if you had a videotape of Obama popping out of the womb in front of a straw hut with an elephant and a pack of lions chewing on a zebra in the background, that alone will not get him out of office.
    And if it did, do you really want Joe Biden in charge?

    We need to get part the conspiracy theory horse puckey, true or not, and focus on his performance (or lack there of) to make him a one termer. Otherwise we don't sound a lot different than the 9/11 truthers and the facts get lost in the crazy.
    Agreed. Although I would like to see his college transcripts. When somebody isn't forthcoming with their records, there's usually something that they are hiding. John Kerry's honorable discharge, for example, is not the original, but a new issue created several years after the fact during the Carter administration, which had a policy of upgrading discharges. Given that, while on active duty, Kerry met with the NVA delegation to the Paris Peace Talks, a serious UCMJ violation, I'd like to know what the original conditions of his discharge were. In the case of Obama, we have never seen his college records or anything written by him except for two books, one of which was ghost-written. The man is a cipher.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

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