Thread: Can a nation restrict political speech for the interest of national security?

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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    nevermind, i'm dumb LOL :D


    It NEVER should have been ruled Constitutional
    :D It never should have happened. Woodrow Wilson was the original Liberal Fascist. No doubt a man that Obama admires.

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  2. #32  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonialMarine0431 View Post
    :D It never should have happened. Woodrow Wilson was the original Liberal Fascist. No doubt a man that Obama admires.

    yeah, I agree
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonialMarine0431 View Post
    It would'nt pass muster today but it was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Abrams v. United States in 1919 until Congress repealed the Sedition Act on December 13, 1920.

    The gist of what I'm saying is that most Americans don't think that you can be throw in jail for speaking against the gubbment in war time, when in actuality it has already been done in American history.

    Not to mention Lincoln suspending Habeas.
    This is a key point for this discussion. I don't think it's a partisan issue here it's just the facts of our history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  4. #34  
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    How many people prosecuted under the Espionage Act or the Sedition act were guilty of speech crimes? How many of these people were socialists?


    The answer: a lot

    People faced arrests, imprisonment, violent off-the-record beatings, and deportation. There was a period where loyalty tests were common and anything that could be considered anti-war or anti-capitalist was enough to get a friendly knock at your door.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    How many people prosecuted under the Espionage Act or the Sedition act were guilty of speech crimes? How many of these people were socialists?


    The answer: a lot
    Names and their alleged crimes please. You just can't make a blanket statement like this and not back it up so supply the names of people who were prosecuted for speech crimes.
    "Inequality is a false notion propagated by those who are made to feel guilty for what they have by those who are jealous for what they don't"-Former MTV Host Kennedy
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  6. #36  
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    Kate Richards O'Hare - gave a speech that was deemed dangerous

    Eugene Debs - Arrested for giving a speech

    Robert Goldstein, producer of Spirit of '76 - arrested for making a movie about the American Revolution that portrayed the British negatively

    Fred Fairchild - arrested for stating he would not go to war during a civilian argument

    Not to mention the Palmer Raids(link):

    The Palmer Raids were attempts by the United States Department of Justice to arrest and deport radical leftists, especially anarchists, from the United States. The raids and arrests occurred in November 1919 and January 1920 under the leadership of Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer. Though more than 500 foreign citizens were deported, including a number of prominent leftist leaders, Palmer's efforts were largely frustrated by officials at the U.S. Department of Labor who had responsibility for deportations and who objected to Palmer's methods and disrespect for the legal process. The Palmer Raids occurred in the larger context of the Red Scare, the term given to fear of and reaction against political radicals in the U.S. in the years immediately following World War I.
    Last edited by Wei Wu Wei; 03-31-2011 at 09:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Names and their alleged crimes please. You just can't make a blanket statement like this and not back it up so supply the names of people who were prosecuted for speech crimes.
    I think he was addressing the Sedition Act of 1918, not modern day, when there were arrests and some prosecutions for speaking against Woodrow Wilson and our involvement in WWI. But beatings? I don't know.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonialMarine0431 View Post
    I think he was addressing the Sedition Act of 1918, not modern day, when there were arrests and some prosecutions for speaking against Woodrow Wilson and our involvement in WWI. But beatings? I don't know.
    let me be specific with the beatings.

    in WWI there were many conscientious objectors to the war who were drafted anyway. many of them requested support or non-combat roles and faced serious unofficial punishments by other soldiers. this was not part of a specific policy of course, but there are records of it happening.

    there was a long quote from a book i read the other day of someone describing what they would do in that situation. i'll try to post the exact quote when i can get my hands on that book again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    My own words reflect the amendment word for word. It's the first amendment for a reason. Again, it's not ambiguous. What another country does does not concern me. What this country does, does. Even if it's speech I don't agree with, that person or persons have the right to spew it. Even you. All speech is protected as in you have the right to say it. However, you have to choose your words carefully.
    "you have to choose your words carefully"

    So, this is what our freedom of speech is boiled down to?

    Being carefull of how we speak, what we speak. Fear multiplied to keep us silent, complacent?
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Kate Richards O'Hare - gave a speech that was deemed dangerous

    Eugene Debs - Arrested for giving a speech

    Robert Goldstein, producer of Spirit of '76 - arrested for making a movie about the American Revolution that portrayed the British negatively

    Fred Fairchild - arrested for stating he would not go to war during a civilian argument

    Not to mention the Palmer Raids(link):
    The Palmer Raids were attempts by the United States Department of Justice to arrest and deport radical leftists, especially anarchists, from the United States. The raids and arrests occurred in November 1919 and January 1920 under the leadership of Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer. Though more than 500 foreign citizens were deported, including a number of prominent leftist leaders, Palmer's efforts were largely frustrated by officials at the U.S. Department of Labor who had responsibility for deportations and who objected to Palmer's methods and disrespect for the legal process. The Palmer Raids occurred in the larger context of the Red Scare, the term given to fear of and reaction against political radicals in the U.S. in the years immediately following World War I.
    Targeting seditious foreign nationals for deportment is hardly anything I would consider unconscionable. Coming to the U.S. as a guest is a privilege, not a right, more so when the U.S. accepts one as a refugee from the Russian Revolution. The main group targeted for deportation, The Union of Russian Workers, openly advocated in their Declaration of Principles, that they stood for uniting American and Canadian workers against capitalism and "forces of authority". In other words, they were not citizens, but guests in our country who openly organized and advocated an insurrection against the very government and people who were harboring them. Deportation was justified.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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