2012 Pres. Election.

[lacarnut]

Bachmann has the same problem as Palin. We need someone who adds to the ticket without bringing a full set of custom luggage as well.

Everyone has baggage. If not real, the media will dig up dirt out of thin air. This Presidential election is going to be worst mud slinging, racist, lying campaign you have ever seen. Obummer will have a billion dollars to spend. Republicans will not be able to raise that much and will be at a distinct disadvantage. So, they better have a balls to wall candidate that is the polar opposite of the O rather than some mushy me too compromising RINO like McCain.

What Palin brings to the table is that she is an outsider that has actually ran a business, balanced a state budget, and knows more about energy than all of the present candidates combined, and can rally the troops.

[Adam Wood]

how about a Cain/Huntsman ticket? Huntsman has a lot of FP experience (ambassador to China)

I remain convinced that so-called foreign policy experience is an illusion, a canard used to beat opposing candidates over the head when they've run out of ammunition.

Very, very few of our Presidents has ever actually had foreign policy experience, and on the whole it doesn't seem to have served many candidates well.

Ways to get foreign policy experience:

• Be President
• Be Secretary of State
• Be an ambassador to multiple nations in multiple regions of the world

Virtually no one has done #3, only about four people alive have done #2, and everyone who has done #1 and is still alive is disqualified from running, save George H. W. Bush and of course Obama.

Let's count backwards until we see who has actually had foreign policy experience prior to assuming office:

43: W. Nope
42: Clinton. Nope
41: Bush. Well, he was ambassador to China for a while, and before that he was chief of spooks. Chief of spooks is not foreign policy experience, and ambassador to one nation does not work because foreign policy is not even close to dealing only with one nation or region.
40: Reagan. Nope
39: Carter. Nope
38: Ford. Nope
37: Nixon. Nope
36: Johnson. Nope
35: Kennedy. Nope
34: Ike. While being commander of SHAEF certainly required a certain degree of diplomacy in dealing with the Brits and the Aussies and the Underground French and whatnot, I don't really consider coordinating a military campaign, even a brilliant one that was the largest in the history of the world, to actually be foreign policy experience.
33: Truman. Nope
32: FDR. Closest he came was Assistant SECNAV. Not what I would call foreign policy experience, particularly during a time of active isolationism as a policy of the US.
31: Hoover. NOW we have someone who at least comes close to having some foreign policy experience. Hoover had at least traveled outside of the country well before he was President, something many succeeding Presidents had not done prior to election. He worked for a London-based company, went to Australia, managed migrant flare-ups between Italians and native Australians, and did humanitarian work through negotiating the safe passage of 120K Americans back from Europe as WWI broke out. He actually engaged in "shuttle diplomacy," so he had some "boots on the ground" experience in acting as a federal envoy. And, of course, as a reward for this pre-office experience, he's considered one of, if not the worst President in American history.
30: Coolidge. Nope.
29: Harding. Nope.
28: Wilson. Well, at least he had the benefit of first-generation immigrant parents, but other than that, no, no foreign policy experience.
27: Taft. Well, Taft at last acted as the Secretary of State when he was the Secretary of War under Roosevelt, and actually negotiated a treaty with the Japanese, so here we have the first actual documentable case of someone who actually had foreign policy experience when they were elected President.


So there you have it. You have to go back more than a hundred years to find someone who actually had foreign policy experience when he was elected President. And his only real claim to fame is that he was so fucking fat that the White House had to install a special bathtub for him so that he wouldn't get stuck in it all the time.


And this is why I say that the "foreign policy experience" claim is an empty canard in Presidential elections.

[Arroyo_Doble]

I disagree with your assessment of the foreign policy experience (or lack there of) of GHW Bush.

[AmPat]

Bachmann has the same problem as Palin. We need someone who adds to the ticket without bringing a full set of custom luggage as well.

I hope we can all pick our candidates this time without the Chicken Little response toward good candidates. It seems as though the DIMoRAT media machine scares us and steers us away from our candidates and toward Milquetoast McCains. WE and WE alone should back our candidates and stop accepting the DIM's view of who is "electable." Bachmann would be infinitely better than the unelectable community organizer.

[Odysseus]

The rejection of leftist politics in America was not something that "just happened", as if people decided after long objective study that they didn't like it.

Actually, it did. Leftists were arrested and supressed because they couldn't win by democratic means, and resorted to violence. The public routinely rejected them because America was founded on principles that run completely counter to the statist impulse.

Also, I think this obsession with the founders is a little silly, do you believe that political and economic thought in the world simply peaked during the same time period that America was founded? and in the ensuing two and a half centuries, after the country and the entire world has undergone massive, previously unimaginable technological, philosophical, economic, and social changes, that nothing was improved on?

Right, we need to be obsessed with a single nineteenth century philosopher who never held a job, ran a business or demonstrated any understanding of capitalism except for his bitter recognition that it didn't work for him. [/QUOTE]

but his hair will :D

Nope. He didn't toss his toupe into the ring. :D

I disagree with your assessment of the foreign policy experience (or lack there of) of GHW Bush.

And Ike. Supreme command of the ETO meant that he was more involved in coalition politics than anyone else in Roosevelt's government. As proof, ask yourself, without Googling, who FDR's Secretary of State was. How many people have even heard of Cordell Hull, much less know anything about him? His sole accomplishment was drafting the UN charter, which is sort of like being Herbert Hoover's chairman of the FED after the Wall Street crash, except that the Depression did less damage than the UN.

And now, for the fun part, the candidate analysis:

Democratic Party
[LIST][*] President Barack Obama of Illinois (Officially Running)
Where do we start? Inept, out of the loop, utterly lacking in management skills, thin-skinned, narcissistic, philosophically hostile to American values and interests, in short, Wei's dream candidate. [*] Pro-life activist Randall Terry of New York (Officially Running) If he's on any state ballot after Super Tuesday, I'll be surprised.

Republican Party

• Tom Miller Career Flight Attendant (Officially Running) Promises a small bag of peanuts in every pot.
• Gary E. Johnson, former Governor of New Mexico (Officially Running) Who? Don't get me wrong, he might be a perfectly good candidate, but he has zero name recognition and has a huge hurdle to beat the better known names. If he doesn't have an extremely large war chest and effective organization, he'll be a footnote after Iowa.
• Fred Karger, political consultant and gay rights activist from California (Officially Running)
• Andy Martin, perennial candidate from Illinois (Officially Running)
• Jimmy McMillan, perennial candidate from New York (Officially Running)
• Ole Savior, perennial candidate from Minnesota (Officially Running)
• Jonathon Sharkey, perennial candidate, wrestler and vampire from Florida (Officially Running) Vampire? Really? I thought that the undead voted Democrat.
• Vern Wuensche, Businessman (Officially Running)
• John Davis, businessman and construction worker from Colorado (Officially Running) These are the electoral roadkill on the path to the White House.
• Newt Gingrich, former U.S. Speaker of the House of Representatives from Georgia (Officially Running) Already stepped in it by attacking his own party's budget. Plays well in the Beltway, but the base loathes that kind of fratricide.
• Ron Paul, U.S. Representative from Texas (Officially Running) Ah, the Republican version of Kucinich. Not a chance.
• Tim Pawlenty, former Governor from Minnesota (Officially Running)Main issue is name recognition. If he can raise the funds, he's got a shot.
• Herman Cain, businessman and radio talk show host from Georgia (Exploring Running) Smoked the other candidates at the first debate. Definitely has momentum. His issue will be campaign discipline and not rising to the bait from the MSM or, if he does rise to it, effectively nailing them. Definitely has the makings of a great campaigner.
• Roy Moore, former Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court of Alabama (Exploring Running) Single issue candidate. Won't happen.
• Buddy Roemer, former Governor from Louisiana (Exploring Running) This is the guy who beat David Duke for LA governor. His unofficial motto was, "Vote for the crook, not the Nazi."
• Mitt Romney, former Governor from Massachusetts (Exploring Running) Good luck explaining why Obamacare sucks but Romneycare doesn't.
• Rick Santorum, former Senator from Pennsylvania (Exploring Running) Did well in the first debate, but lacks executive experience and lost his last election in PA. A candidate who can't deliver his own state isn't exactly a party dream.
• U.S. Ambassador to China Jon Huntsman, Jr. of Utah (Exploring Running) Good luck with that. I'll have the General Tso's chicken and a side of steamed dumplings.

Green Party and/or Socialist Party USA[*]Stewart Alexander, activist (campaign not official) Does anyone beside Wei care?

Libertarian Party[*]R. Lee Wrights, former Libertarian National Committee Vice-Chair (campaign not official) This year, the opportunity to throw away a vote on a third party candidate and possibly reelect Obama rests with the libertarians.

Independents

• Robert Burck ("The Naked Cowboy"), a street performer from New York (Officially Running)

Fringe/kook candidate, but can honestly say that he will bring transparency back to government.

• Joe Schriner, a former journalist, author, and perennial candidate from Ohio (Officially Running)

Whatever.

Speculated candidates
None of the following has formally announced, just currently speculated as possibly running.
Democratic

• Former U.S. Senate nominee Alvin Greene of South Carolina Again, a candidate who cannot deliver his home state is nobody's idea of a dream candidate.
• Liberal and populist commentator Jim Hightower of Texas What? Is he trying to sell more books? Does he really think that people have forgotten his scandals?

Republican

• Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota Possible Veep contender, but not likely to run.
• Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John R. Bolton of Maryland More of a policy wonk than a career politician. Highly unlikely to run.
• Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana If he's not running, he's doing a very good impersonation of someone who is. One of the best fiscal records of any governor, but some concerns among the base as to his conservative bonafides.
• Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani of New York Probably the most capable administrator on the list, but his last campaign was so lackluster that it's highly doubtful that he wants the job, or perhaps he saw how badly the GOP was going to do and decided not to commit in what was going to be a very tough year. However, running a bad campaign once does nothing to endear you to the people who contributed and worked it. Longshot.
• Representative Thad McCotter of Michigan Who?
• Former Governor and 2008 Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin of Alaska If she runs, expect the media to go berserk. If she doesn't, expect the media to nominate her themselves so that they have an excuse for going berserk. She's certainly made many of the right moves to position herself for a run, but it all comes down to how much abuse she's willing to take. Again.
• Lindsey Graham U.S. Senator from South Carolina I think that he just said that he was considering it to piss off Mark Levin. If he does decide to run, it will be as a Democrat.

Libertarian

• Entrepreneur and 2008 Libertarian vice-presidential nominee Wayne Allyn Root of Nevada Who cares. He's running to be the wasted voted.

Independent

• Attorney, consumer advocate, and perennial presidential candidate Ralph Nader of Connecticut At last, Wei's choice. Probably KS' too.

--------------
[/QUOTE]

[Adam Wood]

And Ike. Supreme command of the ETO meant that he was more involved in coalition politics than anyone else in Roosevelt's government. As proof, ask yourself, without Googling, who FDR's Secretary of State was. How many people have even heard of Cordell Hull, much less know anything about him? His sole accomplishment was drafting the UN charter, which is sort of like being Herbert Hoover's chairman of the FED after the Wall Street crash, except that the Depression did less damage than the UN.

And I disagree about his "sole accomplishment." Hull went to great lengths to forestall the Japanese attack on the United States. While he ultimately did not talk the Japanese out of that attack, his efforts provided both valuable intel to the ONI as well as being some excellent diplomacy all around in a very tough situation.

[PoliCon]

I hope we can all pick our candidates this time without the Chicken Little response toward good candidates. It seems as though the DIMoRAT media machine scares us and steers us away from our candidates and toward Milquetoast McCains. WE and WE alone should back our candidates and stop accepting the DIM's view of who is "electable." Bachmann would be infinitely better than the unelectable community organizer.

The problem is conservatives alone cannot carry an election we need to be able to appeal to center and left leaning independents. Sadly the press will smear who ever we put up - so IMO it's better to put up someone who has no visible baggage train following them already - or at least one that does not have the reputation in the press already of being stupid.

[CueSi]

And I disagree about his "sole accomplishment." Hull went to great lengths to forestall the Japanese attack on the United States. While he ultimately did not talk the Japanese out of that attack, his efforts provided both valuable intel to the ONI as well as being some excellent diplomacy all around in a very tough situation.

And my dad was named for Cordell Hull. So... yeah. I kinda know who he is. :p

~QC

[lacarnut]

The problem is conservatives alone cannot carry an election we need to be able to appeal to center and left leaning independents. Sadly the press will smear who ever we put up - so IMO it's better to put up someone who has no visible baggage train following them already - or at least one that does not have the reputation in the press already of being stupid.

So you are looking for a mushy middle of the road RINO. I do not want another McCain. Those that want that kind of candidates are the stupid ones. Also, the 2010 election was about throwing out liberals and RINO's and replacing them with Real Tea Party Conservatives.

Like I said, all candidates have baggage. Plus, I do NOT want a candidate that appeals to LEFT leaning independents. The Repub candidate can win the Presidency by holding the states that McCain won plus winning back most of the red states that Obama won. That is the winning strategy.The polls are meaningless when it comes to the electoral college voting. Obama is going to win the West Coast states (CA, OR) and most of those in the northeast (NY,MA,) in a walk. Trying to appease those voters is retarded.

[PoliCon]

So you are looking for a mushy middle of the road RINO. I do not want another McCain. Those that want that kind of candidates are the stupid ones. Also, the 2010 election was about throwing out liberals and RINO's and replacing them with Real Tea Party Conservatives.

Like I said, all candidates have baggage. Plus, I do NOT want a candidate that appeals to LEFT leaning independents. The Repub candidate can win the Presidency by holding the states that McCain won plus winning back most of the red states that Obama won. That is the winning strategy.The polls are meaningless when it comes to the electoral college voting. Obama is going to win the West Coast states (CA, OR) and most of those in the northeast (NY,MA,) in a walk. Trying to appease those voters is retarded.

Does twisting what I say give you a hard on or something? When did I say ANYTHING about picking a Rino? I've stated on here repeatedly that I want someone like West or Cain or some other articulate, thoughtful conservative who is not pulling a baggage train behind them. We need someone cut from the Cloth of Reagan not Dan Quail. Get it?