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  1. #261  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Social issues matter because ultimately, the problems that we're facing are moral as well as economic. Morally upright people pay their debts, take care of their obligations and protect the people who depend on them. Racking up debt that you have no intention of paying off is a moral failing, not just a fiscal one. Abortion on demand seems like an issue that has nothing to do with economics, but someone who is willing to abort huge numbers of the next generation has no problem racking up debt on that generation, and when you consider that the Boomers are aborting kids that they'd have needed to pay for their retirement benefits, the stupidity and immorality merge. Maintaining entitlements while cutting defense means that our children will not only have to pay for worthless programs that reward poor judgment, but will be exposed to dangers from the rest of the world. Undermining marriage by redefining it as something separate from procreation erodes the most basic institution of our culture, and creates impoverished, violent subcultures which prey upon anyone unfortunate enough to get caught within them.

    Bad morals and bad economics come from the same place, and you can tell a lot about the latter by how one approaches the former.
    I wholeheartedly agree and this sums up very well my world view. The problem is that our population is a bumper sticker and pretty face voting crowd and cannot handle or digest too many issues. Socially, we have gone the way of the turd down the sewer. Not out of sight but circling the porcelain.

    Our candidates are focused or allowing the focus on ancillary issues and not on the real issues. We don't have a few bad policies to adjust, we have major problems that need reversing. Abortion and other social issues won't matter if the very political structure falls apart. We need to fix major problems and then reverse the social damage. This will require major majorities in both houses and a president that has a clear handle on what the progressives have done and are continuing to do.

    I wanted Bachman because of her morals. Her morals didn't come from a poll or shifting political winds like a certain front runner. Her morals allowed me to trust her instincts in political decisions. She is gone now but maybe another will unseat the RINO???
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  2. #262  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    I thought you would realize my post was about more than one candidate. let me break it down:
    the Big government progressive is ROMNEY. He is still preferable to O Blah Blah.

    The isolationist is: PAUL. He is still preferable to O Blah Blah.
    Clear now?
    Crystal.
    “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”Ayn Rand

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  3. #263  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    You really think as President...Paul would actually support the Israelis? Given his open dislike of them in the past?



    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ex-a...ighting-hitler

    You've got a lot to learn.




    So we're just supposed to turn our backs and ignore when another country tries to get them?

    Talking to a brutal dictatorship...thinking we could appease them is how Carter/Clinton giftwrapped and handed the nuke program to the North Koreans they now have.

    WHy do you want a repeat of past failures.

    As President he won't tell Israel how to govern themselves. Maybe he won't support them but he won't try to stop them.
    “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”Ayn Rand

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  4. #264  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Sorry, one account per person. Go back to using the director.
    My mistake, we resolved the shared IP address awhile back. reinstated.
    Ha. Thanks
    “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”Ayn Rand

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  5. #265  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    As President he won't tell Israel how to govern themselves. Maybe he won't support them but he won't try to stop them.
    What he will do is support their enemies but NOT supporting them.

    See how that works.

    Abandoning Israel...a long standing ally leaves them like a lamb among the wolves.

    Why in the hell would any sane person wanting to be President leave an ally to get slaughtered like that?
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
     

  6. #266  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    As President he won't tell Israel how to govern themselves. Maybe he won't support them but he won't try to stop them.
    Paul is anti-Israeli, according to a former staffer:

    WASHINGTON — A former aide to Ron Paul has labeled the Republican White House hopeful as "anti-Israel" after the rediscovery of racially charged newsletters published under the lawmaker's name in the 1980s and 1990s.

    The staunchly libertarian candidate "wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all," Eric Dondero wrote in a column for website RightWingNews.com published Monday. "He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations."

    Dondero, a senior aide from 1997 to 2003 and earlier an assistant in various campaign roles beginning in the late 1980s, said the Texas lawmaker "sides with the Palestinians, and supports their calls for the abolishment of the Jewish state, and the return of Israel, all of it, to the Arabs."

    Read more on Newsmax.com: Former Ron Paul Aide: He's Anti-Israel
    Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!
    In the event of another Arab/Israeli war, the above tells me that Paul will side with the Arabs. Perhaps that doesn't bother you, but since this is a religious conflict between Islam and the rest of the world, and we're the next target, I'm not prepared to lose our most effective and strategically-sited ally.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 01-06-2012 at 04:45 PM.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  7. #267  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Paul is anti-Israeli, according to a former staffer:

    WASHINGTON — A former aide to Ron Paul has labeled the Republican White House hopeful as "anti-Israel" after the rediscovery of racially charged newsletters published under the lawmaker's name in the 1980s and 1990s.

    The staunchly libertarian candidate "wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all," Eric Dondero wrote in a column for website RightWingNews.com published Monday. "He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations."

    Dondero, a senior aide from 1997 to 2003 and earlier an assistant in various campaign roles beginning in the late 1980s, said the Texas lawmaker "sides with the Palestinians, and supports their calls for the abolishment of the Jewish state, and the return of Israel, all of it, to the Arabs."

    Read more on Newsmax.com: Former Ron Paul Aide: He's Anti-Israel
    Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!
    In the event of another Arab/Israeli war, the above tells me that Paul will side with the Arabs. Perhaps that doesn't bother you, but since this is a religious conflict between Islam and the rest of the world, and we're the next target, I'm not prepared to lose our most effective and strategically-sited ally.

    Better than Turkey (an actual NATO ally)?
     

  8. #268  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    Better than Turkey (an actual NATO ally)?
    Much better. The Islamists in the Turkish government have openly worked to undermine our interests in the Middle East. Turkey refused to allow us to use bases that we built and maintained there in order to go into Iraq. They have encroached on Iraqi territory while we were there, forcing us to put our own troops between them and the Kurds. They have established relations with our enemies in the region and fomented unrest by facilitating attempts to bring arms into Gaza in violation of their neutrality and international law. Turkey under Ertogan is not an ally, it's a threat.

    BTW, while we're on the subject of Turkey, why is it that one occupation, that of the West Bank and Gaza, infuriates the left, but another occupation, one undertaken without provocation, and which resulted in the invasion of a sovereign state, the forced partition of that state and the displacement of over 200,000 people, doesn't? Why do you excoriate Israel for the defensive war of 1967, but give Turkey a pass for the invasion, partition and occupation of Cyprus and the forced expulsion of the Greek population from the Turkish zone and the expropriation of their property?
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  9. #269  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Much better. The Islamists in the Turkish government have openly worked to undermine our interests in the Middle East. Turkey refused to allow us to use bases that we built and maintained there in order to go into Iraq. They have encroached on Iraqi territory while we were there, forcing us to put our own troops between them and the Kurds. They have established relations with our enemies in the region and fomented unrest by facilitating attempts to bring arms into Gaza in violation of their neutrality and international law. Turkey under Ertogan is not an ally, it's a threat.
    How many Israeli soldiers were involved in Afghanistan? How many of them died?

    Check Turkey while you are at it.

    BTW, while we're on the subject of Turkey, why is it that one occupation, that of the West Bank and Gaza, infuriates the left, but another occupation, one undertaken without provocation, and which resulted in the invasion of a sovereign state, the forced partition of that state and the displacement of over 200,000 people, doesn't? Why do you excoriate Israel for the defensive war of 1967, but give Turkey a pass for the invasion, partition and occupation of Cyprus and the forced expulsion of the Greek population from the Turkish zone and the expropriation of their property?
    I don't answer for the left, either real or imaginary.

    But as far as this part:

    Why do you excoriate Israel for the defensive war of 1967
    I don't. Glad I could clear that up for you.
     

  10. #270  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The economy is failing because the values of the people running the government are corrupt. The end of Bush's administration was marked by Reid and Pelosi running the legislative branch and spending at a rate that dwarfed Bush's previous budgets. Reid, Pelosi and Obama see government as the ultimate means of redistributing wealth, but don't understand that wealth doesn't just happen, it has to be created. Theft is a moral issue as well as an economic one. The virtues that we associate with smaller government, thrift, industry, prudence, courage and honor are moral values, not simply economic ones. The candidates that forget that won't be able to counter the moral arguments that the left makes for more spending, they'll only come off as stingy. Reagan got that, which is why he was able to make the moral, as well as the fiscal case for economic liberty.
    don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. My point isn't that they shouldn't have the moral convictions, or even state what their stance is or their morals and values are, just that this elections' primary focus needs to be on the economy and what each candidate's plan/ideas are to change it. Use their values and what not to strengthen their arguments.
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
     

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