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04-21-2011, 03:08 PM
A random sampling should come up with fairly representative proportions of party identification, but it won't always.
As it is, the poll has more conservatives and moderates than liberals so if anything the results are going to be skewed in the other direction.
Feel free though to find data on population party identification and we can keep any discrepancies in mind when examining the data.
Which explains why they are so enamored of Social Security and Medicare.
Except that they weren't popular options, they were the only options offered. See what they would have chosen if eliminating federal departments like Education, Commerce and Energy were offered.
It would be a good idea to see if people support cutting the Department of Education vs raising taxes on billionaires.
Exactly how much of an individual's income should government be allowed to redistribute? Historically, various religious movements demanded tithes, meaning 10%, to as much as 20% (the Muslim Zakat, although the taxes on non-Muslims, the Jizhya and land taxes could reach 90% or higher, depending on how badly the Caliph needed funds and how much he wanted to persecute the dhimmis). What I would like to know is how much of a person's income you think that they are entitled to keep? No equivocation, just a hard number. How much of what I earn should actually stay mine? How much do I "owe" to the government for the privilege of allowing me to mind my own business?
Its not about what tax rate is "morally correct" in fact I think our entire economic system is morally bankrupt.Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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04-21-2011, 03:21 PM
yes.
There will be some people who don't make enough money to even fill a tax form but yes for the most part people should be paying into the system especially if they want to claim protections and benefits from it.
sales taxes can be used very intelligently like you pointed out, and these taxes do generally affect poor people more than wealthy people (because the less money you have, the greater percentage of your income gets spent, as opposed to invested or saved)
in general, during this recession, working people have hurt FAR more than the wealthy class (who have actually been doing consistently well throughout this recession) and that should be kept in mind when we are looking at "painful cuts". yes everyone needs to put in some, even working class people, but you've got to be a clown if you're gonna sit there and claim that the unfortunate billionaires are being shafted by those greedy teachers and seniors and poorsOriginally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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04-21-2011, 03:24 PM
You are mixing corporate taxes and individual taxes together.
The tax rates were lowered on everyone. Not just the rich. You've bought into the media hype.
Look it's real easy. The more money you keep from your paycheck...the more you have to do with however you see fit.
If you're not one of those evil rich dudes that Libtards envy so much...you use that extra cash for savings...for a trip...maybe some home improvements. Things that stimulate the economy.
Small business owners use the extra money...to invest in their business.
The ultra rich types...you know the ones that are constantly telling us we need to pay more...buy big fancy boats...jets...and invest more into their own business ventures.
The economy picks up.
When people get to keep more of their own money (less taxes) they return it into the economy and things pick up.
When their taxes are raised...at any income level...people will hang on to to what cash they have to help them get through the lean times.
They spend less and in turn the economy suffers.
Now for the Corporate jobs you talk about heading overseas.
Thats thanks to outrageous and unsustainable Union contracts...high taxes...all of this green energy bullshit and a lot of over zealous regulation that drives up their costs and drives down their profit margin.
Now the company can do one of two things...pass on the cost to the consumer and force you and me to pay more...or move their operations to a more business friendly environment and keep the cost of whatever we are buying form them at the same price we are paying now.
Companies are in business to make money...no one ever starts a company with the end goal to be bankruptcy.
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04-21-2011, 03:28 PM
We already tax imports and impose tariffs.
Are you in favor of the 47% or so people not paying taxes begin to start paying them?
He wants to soak those that have been successful in life as a punishment for doing something well.
And he wants that so you and I can live in a womb to tomb cocoon of Government provided everything.
EVeryone will want for nothing and no one will feel bad or jealous because you have something they want.
In Wee Wee's Socialist utopia we will all exist on the same shitty level so that everything is "fair".
Everyone that is...except for the elite's like himself who think they are owed something because they saved us from our miserable existence.
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04-21-2011, 03:44 PM
It wasn't proportional.
A $10 tax break for poors and a $10 Billion tax break for the rich counts as "lower taxes for everyone" but really it's not.
Look it's real easy. The more money you keep from your paycheck...the more you have to do with however you see fit.
If you're not one of those evil rich dudes that Libtards envy so much...you use that extra cash for savings...for a trip...maybe some home improvements. Things that stimulate the economy.
Different classes use their money differently.
You can give $10 million to a bunch of poors and you better believe almost all of that money will be spent fast. Spending money on goods or services ALWAYS increases demand for that product, which necessitates hiring.
You can give $10 million to a small group of billionaires and you better believe they aren't going to take it to walmart to spend it. It might get invested, at which point capital gains returns will be taxed at a lower rate, or it may be used to increase productivity, which usually results in lower worker pay and higher profits, or it may be simply saved, at which point it may be used to invest in more jobs, but because these corporations and banks are multinational, there's nothing to be sure that hiring will occur here.
Small business owners use the extra money...to invest in their business.
The ultra rich types...you know the ones that are constantly telling us we need to pay more...buy big fancy boats...jets...and invest more into their own business ventures.
The economy picks up.
A person with huge sums of capital is more able to create scenarios that are good for him (Person A), at the expense of Persons B through T. It is more easy to "rig the game" when you have more Capital.
So, for reasons that are not evil or mean or bad, but rather simple rational self-interest, a person with huge sums of capital, with $10 million can use that money to benefit himself at the expense of many other people.
I've already explained in depth in multiple threads how supply-side economics doesn't work because it's based on the flawed assumption that there is always a huge demand for job growth, which isn't the case from the side of the employer. I can revisit this if need be.
I admit that too high taxes can impede job growth at a certain level, but employers aren't simply going to hire purely because they have more money. Hiring makes no sense if there isn't corresponding increases in Demand.
You can increase demand by increasing the amount of disposable income people have, and poor people spend the greatest percentage of their income (because they don't have as much to save)
When people get to keep more of their own money (less taxes) they return it into the economy and things pick up.
When their taxes are raised...at any income level...people will hang on to to what cash they have to help them get through the lean times.
Having a big pile of money doesn't do anything on it's own, you can't eat a money sandwich.
Saving money is what people do when they already have enough money that they are able to save.
Spending money stimulates the economy, and poor people spend the highest percentage of their money (and they're more likely to spend their money on domestic small businesses, rather than travelling to Europe to spend it all on vacations and liquor)
They spend less and in turn the economy suffers.
Now for the Corporate jobs you talk about heading overseas.
Thats thanks to outrageous and unsustainable Union contracts...high taxes...all of this green energy bullshit and a lot of over zealous regulation that drives up their costs and drives down their profit margin.
The argument is that 99% employment is desirable even if people are making $1.25 an hour.
No that's not how it works, you are demonstrating without even realising it that wealthy people in the US can only make extreme profits by exploiting their workers, you seem to have a baby understanding of the labor theory of value, even though you don't realize it.
Now the company can do one of two things...pass on the cost to the consumer and force you and me to pay more...or move their operations to a more business friendly environment and keep the cost of whatever we are buying form them at the same price we are paying now.
What's never questioned, however, is if it is necessary to exploit labor for high profits in order to live the lifestyle that we do?
Companies are in business to make money...no one ever starts a company with the end goal to be bankruptcy.
Capitalism relies on the assumption of infinite growth, which was cool to use back in 1842 when people still believed that infinite growth was possible but it's not.Last edited by Wei Wu Wei; 04-21-2011 at 03:47 PM.
Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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