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  1. #1 "The Great Debate: Is The Anglican Church Of England Really Christian ?" 
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    Catholic defectors will leave Anglicans breathing sigh of relief – bishop

    Church of England bishop Christopher Hill says losing clergy or laity to Catholic Ordinariate will let CoE move on

    A Church of England bishop says congregations will breathe a "sigh of relief" this week when hundreds of worshippers defect to the Roman Catholic church, potentially drawing a line under the schism over the ordination of women.

    Up to 900 Anglicans, including 60 clergy, are preparing to be received into the Roman Catholic faith in special services during Holy Week.
    snip
    The Vatican created the Ordinariate in October 2009, following requests for help from traditionalist Anglicans in Australia and the US – disagreement about women in the Church of England's priesthood has raged for decades. Uncertainty surrounding who and how many would take advantage of the papal offer has hung over some of the hundreds of parishes opposed to female clergy.
    snip
    Up to 900 Anglicans, including 60 clergy, are preparing to be received into the Roman Catholic faith in special services during Holy Week.

    For the congregation of St Barnabas, in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, the loss of a priest and 72 worshippers has caused personal and practical difficulties.

    All but two members of the parochial church council – the executive body of the parish – have left, and people with no prior involvement in the running of the church have been forced to help out.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-relief-bishop
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  2. #2  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    this has been happening for the last year or so, not that it's a real hard switch
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  3. #3  
    The Brits don't seem to have any Anglican alternatives to the CoE. Out here there are a lot of Continuing Anglican churches that have already broken with Canterbury but which remain completely faithful to the Anglican tradition. People tend to look for those churches here instead of looking at Catholicism.
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    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The Brits don't seem to have any Anglican alternatives to the CoE. Out here there are a lot of Continuing Anglican churches that have already broken with Canterbury but which remain completely faithful to the Anglican tradition. People tend to look for those churches here instead of looking at Catholicism.
    The split here was very, very bad. Our church did not even know if they were going to be allowed to keep their place of worship.
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  5. #5  
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman

    When Pope Benedict XVI travels to the UK in September 2010 he will be beatifying, Newman, one of England's most famous converts to the Roman Catholic Church
    ......
    Newman's Resignation from Oxford

    In 1841, Newman published Tract 90 in which he claimed that the Thirty-nine Articles of the Church of England (written in 1563 during the reign of Elizabeth I) were essentially Catholic Doctrine as it had been both in the early church and at the Council of Trent.

    A great controversy arose and he was eventually forced to resign both his teaching post at Oxford and his position at the University church of St. Mary the Virgin.
    ..........
    John Henry Newman's Writings

    Some of Newman's well-known writings include:

    Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine
    The Idea of the University
    Letter to Pusey
    Apologia pro Vita Sua (his autobiography)

    In the story of his conversion, told in Apologia pro Vita Sua, he says, "From the time that I became a Catholic...I have been in perfect peace and contentment, I never have had one doubt...and my happiness on that score remains to this day without interruption."
    http://www.suite101.com/content/john...rdinal-a264646
    ...........

    John Henry Cardinal Newman's Importance and Influence

    Parochial and Plain Sermons, Volume 1 Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman
    http://www.newmanreader.org/works/pa...me1/index.html
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    An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman
    http://www.newmanreader.org/works/de...ent/index.html
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    Tracts for the Times Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman

    http://www.newmanreader.org/works/times/index.html
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    He discovered that as far back as the Church Fathers, the doctrines of the Church were the same as those that the Roman Catholic Church taught. He said, "When one reads history, he ceases to be a Protestant."
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    "Out of the shadows and symbols unto truth" Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman

    http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/docum...y%20Newman.htm
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    " Of all of His Works My Personal favorite is a poem... ' The Dream of Geroutius '.
    http://www.ccel.org/n/newman/gerontius/gerontius.htm
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    On his ninetieth birthday, shortly before his death, Newman wrote his own epitaph which summed up the courage of his embrace of the Catholic faith: Ex umbris et imaginibus in veritatem'"Out of shadows and symbols unto truth."
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    A New Exodus of Protestants Streams to Rome

    We’re seeing the first signs of an avalanche of conversions and reconversions. In 1998, more than 88,000 Protestants were received into the Catholic Church (and more than 73,000 adults were baptized, many of them from Protestant backgrounds) and the Protestants [now] coming into the Church are the most devoted Protestants, people deeply committed to Scripture and prayer. What accounts for this Protestant exodus at the twilight of the 20th century?
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...on/re0252.html
    .................

    http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/...mportance.html
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    this has been happening for the last year or so, not that it's a real hard switch
    Except one huge difference. While both the COE and the RCC are headed by a monarch, in essence the entire Anglican communion (including Episcopalian churches) is a constitutional monarchy and the RCC is an absolute monarchy.

    While Roman Catholics in the US generally have enough low level bureaucracy and politics to keep them busy, they do occasionally run up against absolute and arbitrary authority. Anglicans are not accustomed to this.

    And the parishioners are on the move in many directions. While I won't dispute that the Anglican churches are declining in membership and attendance, many Catholics defect to the Anglican churches for more liberty of person and ideology. In addition, many Catholic parishes are essentially in rebellion.

    The real problem is the evolution of the churches away from the exotic mythology toward a civic church which embraces the more organic and universal principals while indulging a hodgepodge of ideas from traditional European religions to Buddhism.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    The split here was very, very bad. Our church did not even know if they were going to be allowed to keep their place of worship.
    My bunch broke off back in the 1970s so we were kind of ahead of the curve but we've been in expansion mode over the past 10 years with all the individuals and entire congregations fleeing the Communion. If the CoE and the worldwide Anglican bodies wave goodbye to the traditional Christians, they just aren't going to have enough congregants to bother with shortly.

    It's the traditionalists who really fuel the grassroots churches. The people who see their membership as little more than a family tradition are going to find more congenial things to do on Sundays and they aren't going to be passing that tradition on to their children.

    In a lot of ways, this is how feminism rendered itself irrelevant in the 80s. Instead of maturing into a useful worldview for ordinary women with husbands, lovers, and children it just became a politically correct tool for homosexuals and the mentally ill. Regular women who weren't interested in transgender justice or sex-positive environments or queers of color simply didn't belong. The issues of relationships, children, work/life balance and all that just disappeared from the conversation.

    Canterbury is now doing the same kind of thing to itself. :(
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  8. #8  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Except one huge difference. While both the COE and the RCC are headed by a monarch, in essence the entire Anglican communion (including Episcopalian churches) is a constitutional monarchy and the RCC is an absolute monarchy.

    While Roman Catholics in the US generally have enough low level bureaucracy and politics to keep them busy, they do occasionally run up against absolute and arbitrary authority. Anglicans are not accustomed to this.

    And the parishioners are on the move in many directions. While I won't dispute that the Anglican churches are declining in membership and attendance, many Catholics defect to the Anglican churches for more liberty of person and ideology. In addition, many Catholic parishes are essentially in rebellion.

    The real problem is the evolution of the churches away from the exotic mythology toward a civic church which embraces the more organic and universal principals while indulging a hodgepodge of ideas from traditional European religions to Buddhism.
    my church is one of the most Democratic in the world...lot of politics in the church, but not the same hardheadedness that primates some denominations...

    local church s can be different, but the General Conference is pretty good
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    My bunch broke off back in the 1970s so we were kind of ahead of the curve but we've been in expansion mode over the past 10 years with all the individuals and entire congregations fleeing the Communion. If the CoE and the worldwide Anglican bodies wave goodbye to the traditional Christians, they just aren't going to have enough congregants to bother with shortly.

    It's the traditionalists who really fuel the grassroots churches. The people who see their membership as little more than a family tradition are going to find more congenial things to do on Sundays and they aren't going to be passing that tradition on to their children.

    In a lot of ways, this is how feminism rendered itself irrelevant in the 80s. Instead of maturing into a useful worldview for ordinary women with husbands, lovers, and children it just became a politically correct tool for homosexuals and the mentally ill. Regular women who weren't interested in transgender justice or sex-positive environments or queers of color simply didn't belong. The issues of relationships, children, work/life balance and all that just disappeared from the conversation.

    Canterbury is now doing the same kind of thing to itself. :(
    Possibly.

    Or Iker is just an asshole.
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  10. #10  
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    Although the United Church of Christ is one of the most liberal denomination, they do have an organizational structure that allows individual congregations to leave the denomination without losing their property. The individual congregations own their churches, not the General Synod. That seems to be the problem facing Episcopalian churches that want to separate from the denomination-the organization owns their building, not the individual parish.

    In most big cities there is at least one Congregational church, that either never joined the UCC or has left it to maintain a more conservative faith. Most that stayed with the UCC have those initials somewhere in the church's name.
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