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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Although the United Church of Christ is one of the most liberal denomination, they do have an organizational structure that allows individual congregations to leave the denomination without losing their property. The individual congregations own their churches, not the General Synod. That seems to be the problem facing Episcopalian churches that want to separate from the denomination-the organization owns their building, not the individual parish.

    In most big cities there is at least one Congregational church, that either never joined the UCC or has left it to maintain a more conservative faith. Most that stayed with the UCC have those initials somewhere in the church's name.

    The reasons behind the difference in structure are important.

    While they won't easily admit this, it has only been since and as a result of the social egalitarian movement (Civil Rights and nondiscrimination in general) that the fundamentalist, charismatic, and pentecostal churches have somewhat shed their image as a reservation for poor and uneducated people. The megachurches were born.

    While some folks built megachurches, others looked around and saw paid for Episcopal churches on prime, often historic, and socially advantageous real estate with dwindling membership. Having been in the catbird seat for so long, many of these churches were physical centerpieces of towns and also had considerable bank accounts. They became targets for takeover.

    Truro Church in Fairfax and another old church in Pittsburgh were perhaps the best known churches to be stolen by people who deliberately joined the church, brought others with them, and then took it over. For this reason the Episcopal Church went to court to establish its ownership of all church property.

    If Muslims were pretending to be Baptists to steal churches, Americans world not approve. Converts stealing Episcopal churches is no different.

    Another phenomenon out there is Catholics who want out from under some rules going to Episcopal churches and then trying to make them more conservative. Kind of a "ok I can be a priest and get married, but you still can't be gay."
    Last edited by Novaheart; 05-09-2011 at 01:25 PM.
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  2. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Another phenomenon out there is Catholics who want out from under some rules going to Episcopal churches and then trying to make them more conservative. Kind of a "ok I can be a priest and get married, but you still can't be gay."
    Not that I've seen. Former Catholics either join nose-bleed high Anglican groups who are still using the 1928 BCP (and are already much more conservative than the typical Catholic parish) or they join one of those happy-clappy Episcopal churches who are used to seeing gayness, enviro-nuts, and/or pagan lesbians in the sanctuary.

    Catholics who are interested in Anglicanism but who want a Catholic experience need to seek out one of the many emerging Anglican Use communities. A lot of displeased former Anglicans make up these groups but even more displeased current Catholics join them to receive a more reverent liturgical experience.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Not that I've seen. Former Catholics either join nose-bleed high Anglican groups who are still using the 1928 BCP (and are already much more conservative than the typical Catholic parish) or they join one of those happy-clappy Episcopal churches who are used to seeing gayness, enviro-nuts, and/or pagan lesbians in the sanctuary.

    Catholics who are interested in Anglicanism but who want a Catholic experience need to seek out one of the many emerging Anglican Use communities. A lot of displeased former Anglicans make up these groups but even more displeased current Catholics join them to receive a more reverent liturgical experience.

    lol!


    Nosebleed high.

    Frozen chosen.

    If only everyone could laugh at themselves so easily.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Not that I've seen. Former Catholics either join nose-bleed high Anglican groups who are still using the 1928 BCP (and are already much more conservative than the typical Catholic parish) or they join one of those happy-clappy Episcopal churches who are used to seeing gayness, enviro-nuts, and/or pagan lesbians in the sanctuary.

    Catholics who are interested in Anglicanism but who want a Catholic experience need to seek out one of the many emerging Anglican Use communities. A lot of displeased former Anglicans make up these groups but even more displeased current Catholics join them to receive a more reverent liturgical experience.
    Is there any other? My lord woman, how can you feel churched without Elizabethan English, candles, incense, wine, and singing priests? Would you have us do away with processionals and pipe organs as well?
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  5. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Is there any other? My lord woman, how can you feel churched without Elizabethan English, candles, incense, wine, and singing priests?
    Well I wouldn't although I could probably scrape by with a Tridentine mass if I had to. :p
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Well I wouldn't although I could probably scrape by with a Tridentine mass if I had to. :p
    I was raised in the Episcopal Church and also attended Catholic elementary school, including mass on Wednesdays and saints days. Other than the confessionals (which fascinated me) I didn't notice much difference.

    I loved Wednesdays. It was neat to be in a church full of children.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I was raised in the Episcopal Church and also attended Catholic elementary school, including mass on Wednesdays and saints days. Other than the confessionals (which fascinated me) I didn't notice much difference.

    I loved Wednesdays. It was neat to be in a church full of children.

    I've heard that a high church episcopalian is more catholic than most catholics.
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  8. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I've heard that a high church episcopalian is more catholic than most catholics.
    That we are by a long shot. The Novus Ordo masses that I have attended (and I've seen a lot of them) range from the banal right straight through to giddy insanity. There's very little reverence and a whole lot of Look-At-Me stuff. Our most pedestrian Morning Prayer service is more visually, intellectually, and emotionally rich than above average Holy Day masses that I have seen.

    But to each their own. A lot of RCs that I talk with are almost completely unaware of their own history, liturgical heritage, or doctrines and they are fine with that. It's a semi-free country, after all. ;)
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Is there any other? My lord woman, how can you feel churched without Elizabethan English, candles, incense, wine, and singing priests? Would you have us do away with processionals and pipe organs as well?
    If I had $50M at my disposal, I would bring you, Linda, Noon and Ginger on a vacation. I don't don't know why this would be epic to me, but it just ... would be.

    ~QC
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  10. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by CueSi View Post
    If I had $50M at my disposal, I would bring you, Linda, Noon and Ginger on a vacation. I don't don't know why this would be epic to me, but it just ... would be.

    ~QC
    I'm sure it would be epic for all of us - especially international law enforcement. :p
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