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  1. #21  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Its an interesting question - are there beliefs which are so absurd and/or dangerous that massive scorn, ridicule, and possibly even disqualification from obtaining certain esteemed positions in society, should be a consequence for those who hold them?

    I think there are such beliefs... but what are their characteristics, and how do you measure them, and where's the line?

    In the case of obviously dangerous beliefs, there isnt much of a question... nobody would elect a neo-nazi, for example.

    But what about beliefs that are just extremely absurd? Would anyone elect a guy who, for example, openly claims that he was once abducted by an alien super-race of Elvis impersonators, even if he seemed otherwise coherent and functional in other areas?
    We've found that you are an effective barometer of absurdity. If you espouse it, it warrants scorn, ridicule and disqualification from further consideration.

    On edit: You know, this is a serious issue, and it warrants more than a flippant response, although I still stand by my response.

    The ostracism of certain beliefs as a matter of course strikes me as totalitarian in its basic premise, that some ideas can be dismissed out of hand because they are unpopular or considered "unenlightened", is the modus operandi of political elites throughout history. It is used to discredit those who hold contrarian views, even when those views turn out to be right, and is a call to bullying, abuse and ad hominem attack instead of reasoned argument. The end result is that anyone who disagrees with a liberal is called a Nazi or fascist, by people who barely understand the term. It turns public discourse into a shouting match instead of a debate.

    I personally believe that being a communist or a Nazi should be a bar to public office in the United States, but I can also explain whyt, using objective criteria, totalitarian philosophies undermine and subvert the legal framework which our Constitutional order requires in order to exist. Ridicule is a tool, but it must serve rational argument, not replace it.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 05-15-2011 at 01:21 PM.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's difficult to imagine that where there is significant hostility to Roman Catholics (and for good reason) that there would not be hostility to Mormons. I think the Mormons get a fair amount of slack because they have "Jesus Christ" on the marquee and because they are evangelical, and because most people simply want to be left alone.... but when the nuts and bolts of Mormonism are openly discussed (something most Mormons never do in mixed company) it ought to get as little respect as Scientology.

    I sincerely believe that it is the wholesome white bread image of blonde haired Mormon boys with ties riding bikes around America that sedates many on the religious right to this group of people. They have some very strange beliefs and they also sponsor huge numbers of immigrants to the country. They also have a history of official racism dating only to thirty years ago.
    I would have completely disagreed with you until about 3 years ago...then I read "Under the Banner of Heaven". It shook my faith and made me re-examine my otherwise benevolent view of Mormons. I still like Romney, though, and would vote for him as President, both in the primaries and the general.
     

  3. #23  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    Mormons are considered a cult by most Christians.
    Which I think is odd. I know a good deal of them, and they always seem like well adjusted normal people. Honestly, I wouldn't even know they were Mormon if it wasn't brought up. Hell, I've even known some Mormon fighter pilots... That's gotta be weird for them...

    But yeah, I don't get the stigma. Sure their beliefs are a bit differant, but from my experience, their all good hearted folks, who have even befriended heathenistic Atheists like myself. :D
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
     

  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Hell, I've even known some Mormon fighter pilots... That's gotta be weird for them...
    Why would you think that? Mormon doctrine and history is decidedly not pacifist. I believe Roger Smith is quoted as saying that if attacked, the Mormons should fight to the death, that they are "not Quakers".
     

  5. #25  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Why would you think that? Mormon doctrine and history is decidedly not pacifist. I believe Roger Smith is quoted as saying that if attacked, the Mormons should fight to the death, that they are "not Quakers".
    Not pacifism. Drinking is a big part of the Fight Pilot culture. A big part.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
     

  6. #26  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Not pacifism. Drinking is a big part of the Fight Pilot culture. A big part.
    I always assumed that those evasive maneuvers into Balad were deliberate. :D
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  7. #27  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FlaGator
    Mormons are considered a cult by most Christians.
    *shrugs* Never considered them a cult. Just looked at them as another form of Christianity with their own little unique quirks to their particular sect.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
     

  8. #28  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I always assumed that those evasive maneuvers into Balad were deliberate. :D

    You mean that corkscrew landing into BIAP was because that C-130 driver was scared! :eek:



    :p:D
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
     

  9. #29  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Romney's religion would probably be an issue in the general election. The main issue working against him in the GOP primaries is that he has flipped on abortion and instituted health care reform as governor of MA.

    He's not as conservative as the GOP base that votes in primaries, at least in most states.
     

  10. #30  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    You mean that corkscrew landing into BIAP was because that C-130 driver was scared! :eek:

    :p:D
    I always thought so. Now, I know that he was violating GO1A with a vengeance! :eek:
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Romney's religion would probably be an issue in the general election. The main issue working against him in the GOP primaries is that he has flipped on abortion and instituted health care reform as governor of MA.

    He's not as conservative as the GOP base that votes in primaries, at least in most states.
    He's not as conservative as the GOP base, period. He's as close to a Republican as will ever be elected to statewide office in Massachussetts, but he ran a state where the people clamored for state control of their lives, and he tried to give them what they wanted. If he agreed with what they demanded, he isn't a conservative, and if he didn't, but acquiesced, then he isn't a leader. Neither of these serves him well. But, even with that in mind, does anyone think that he will carry Massachussetts against Obama? The candidate that we select must be a conservative, but he must also be a popular native of a swing state that he can deliver. Romney fails both tests.

    BTW, Harry Reid is also a Mormon. Does anyone think that if he were the Democratic nominee, it would be an issue for them? Democrats will vote for a celibate one-legged Zoroastrian if he holds the correct views on expansion of state power, abortion, gay rights and has a degree from an Ivy League university.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

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