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  1. #1 "A Big Whine from Big Oil" 
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    EDITORIAL
    A Big Whine From Big Oil
    Published: May 14, 2011
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    With gas at $4 a gallon, oil at $100 a barrel and profits at near-record levels, it is hard to feel sympathy for the oil industry. Yet sympathy is what the C.E.O.’s of the five biggest companies asked for when they appeared Thursday before a Senate hearing on a Democratic proposal to eliminate about $2 billion in tax breaks for the Big Five.

    Exxon’s Rex Tillerson called the proposal “misinformed and discriminatory.” ConocoPhillips’s James Mulva, in a letter, called the idea “un-American” because it would supposedly cost American jobs, raise consumer prices and discourage investment — a position he reasserted during the hearings.

    The other three companies at the witness table, BP America, Shell and Chevron, raised similar complaints. How absurd are their claims? Utterly absurd.

    Take investment. In 2005, with oil nearing $60 a barrel, Mr. Mulva and other top executives told a Senate committee that the companies did not need the tax breaks to keep exploring for oil. Congress left them in place. Now that the Senate seems serious about getting rid of them, he and his colleagues have changed their tune — even though their companies obviously need them even less at $100 a barrel.

    Or take prices at the pump. In a memorandum to Senate Democratic leaders on Wednesday, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service said that eliminating the tax benefits would have virtually no effect on the price of gasoline. The impact on industry profits — the Big Five earned a robust $35 billion in the first quarter of this year alone — would be trivial.

    The report also addressed one more industry claim: that ending the tax breaks for the oil companies alone would be discriminatory. Most of the breaks — deductions for well depletion, intangible drilling costs and the like — are unique to the industry. The exception is a deduction for domestic production, designed to encourage all manufacturing companies to invest in this country. But as the research service pointed out, industry is not going to stop drilling on American territory as long as the oil is there and yielding big dollars.

    These subsidies are clearly unnecessary, and returning $2 billion to the Treasury would be a good thing. But more than anything, one has to wonder why the oil companies are fighting so hard for a comparatively small amount of cash, at least for them. The only explanation we can come up with is that they have always gotten what they wanted and expect to do so now, so why not?

    The House is certainly tripping over itself to do the industry’s bidding. Last week, it passed two more irresponsible bills accelerating drilling permits and authorizing leasing in long-protected waters of the north and central Atlantic coasts, the Southern California coast and Alaska, including Bristol Bay. It is as if the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico had never happened.

    It is imperative that the Senate block the House’s drilling and leasing plans, and that President Obama veto them if the Senate caves. And both the Senate and the president should keep pressing to eliminate the tax breaks. Three-fourths of Americans responding to a recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll said they want to end them.

    Obviously, $4-a-gallon gas has something to do with this. But there is also an elemental matter of fairness here. As Mr. Obama put it in his radio address a week ago, when the oil companies are making huge profits and people are suffering and deficits are growing, “these tax giveaways aren’t right. They aren’t smart. And we need to end them.”
    whoever wrote this is completely disconnected from reality
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  2. #2  
    CU Royalty JB's Avatar
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    Why not eliminate the tax breaks?

    If "corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost onto the consumer", why not pass the $2 Billion onto the entire gas buying population instead of just the gas buying population that pays taxes.

    This way, individuals that pay taxes and individuals that don't pay taxes get to eat the $2 Billion.
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    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Why not eliminate the tax breaks?

    If "corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost onto the consumer", why not pass the $2 Billion onto the entire gas buying population instead of just the gas buying population that pays taxes.

    This way, individuals that pay taxes and individuals that don't pay taxes get to eat the $2 Billion.
    huh?

    Tax breaks are breaks from having corps paying taxes, and are savings that are passed on.
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  4. #4  
    PORCUS STAPHUS ADMIN Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    huh?

    Tax breaks are breaks from having corps paying taxes, and are savings that are passed on.
    His logic is that everyone uses gas whether they are paying taxes or not, and this would put some more of the burden on the deadbeats.
    The flaw I see there is that the economy comes to a standstill when oil prices are too high and that is bad for everyone.

    Revelation 15:1
    And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    The flaw I see there is that the economy comes to a standstill when oil prices are too high and that is bad for everyone.
    I imagine you mean gas prices because a good side conversation would be "Eliminating the tax breaks should have zero effect on the price of a barrel of oil".

    Since oil is priced on the global maket. Or at least it should be.
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  6. #6  
    PORCUS STAPHUS ADMIN Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I imagine you mean gas prices because a good side conversation would be "Eliminating the tax breaks should have zero effect on the price of a barrel of oil".

    Since oil is priced on the global maket. Or at least it should be.
    I meant to say fuel.

    Revelation 15:1
    And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Why not eliminate the tax breaks?

    If "corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost onto the consumer", why not pass the $2 Billion onto the entire gas buying population instead of just the gas buying population that pays taxes.

    This way, individuals that pay taxes and individuals that don't pay taxes get to eat the $2 Billion.
    You should really know what you're talking about before you hit "submit reply".


    In the U.S., companies are taxed 35 percent on earnings of $10 million to $15 million or on all earnings over $18.3 million. That’s one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, making an overseas move somewhat attractive to companies that wish to avoid the U.S. tax rate. But that's not the leading reason companies send jobs overseas. According to a 2005 report by the Government Accountability Office, global technological advancement, increased openness of countries such as China and India, the higher education level of foreign workers in technological fields, and the reduced cost per foreign worker are all contributing factors to off-shoring.

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec..._does_the.html

    I guess if you want to watch what is left of the U.S. oil and gas industry leave our shores...you can go ahead and side with the Libs and call for eliminating the tax breaks. You gonna hold your head up high when the Liberals in this country succeed in killing off an entire industry in the name of "the environment"?




    Our Federal Government and the outrageous taxes they impose are the reason those companies need the incentives. They have to have them to remain competitive.

    There isn't much incentive as it is to drill in the UlS because of the draconian taxes and regulations that are imposed purposely to keep interest in domestic production low. Eliminating the tax breaks will choke what life is left right out if it.

    But then again it would give Libs new life on their constant bitch about jobs leaving our country for places like China and India.
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  8. #8  
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    The oil companies receive about 2 billion in tax breaks each year. They show profits of 200 billion.

    The national debt is 14 trillion.

    So eliminating these tax breaks, while it should be done, will have almost no effect on paying down the debt.

    Nor will it effect the price of gasoline. After all, we use about 14 Million barrels/day ( 3.3 billion barrels/yr), so we're talking about a tax break that is worth 70 cents/barrel. And for right now, that barrel costs 100$.

    ]The 41 U.S. oil and gas companies that break out their federal taxes said they paid Uncle Sam $5.7 billion in 2010, according to data compiled by Compustat. That's more than any other industry. Exxon alone paid $1.3 billion. (The company's total tax bill was $21.5 billion, but most of that was paid to foreign governments and states.)
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43004049...on-year-taxes/
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  9. #9  
    CU Royalty JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    ...
    Do corporations pay taxes?

    I don't mean do they remit payments to the US Treasury, I mean do they pay taxes? Or are taxes just costs that are built into the price of a product? Which means consumers actually pay. So, yes or no, "Do corporations pay taxes"?

    Let's take a look at what's happening here:

    The big five in Big Oil made $35 Billion in profit in Q1 of this year. If that holds, extrapolate that out to $140 Billion in profits for the year.

    Do you honestly believe that if $2 Billion in tax cuts were eliminated that (paraphrasing your words) "the US oil and gas industry would leave our shores", that "it would kill of an entire industry", that "they would no longer remain competitve" and that "the life would be choked out of the industry"?

    Do you honestly believe that? Seriously?

    ExxonMobil alone has a $398 Billion dollar market cap. They are on track to do $456 Billion in gross sales this year. I really don't think $2B is going to do much damage.

    Why aren't you outraged? Here's an industry that took $35B out of your one pocket and now wants to reach into your other pocket and take another $2B of your money.

    Would you be so outraged if it was GeorgeSoros, Inc. that was getting breaks like this? Or are you defending BigOil because they are a bogeyman to the left and you feel you just have to defend them by default?
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    uninformed drivel here
    Save the stump speech for people that...like you don't know what they're talking about.

    il companies when you look at their profit margin aren't very successful. They average in the 7-10% range.

    While you buy into the stupid MSM hype of demonizing Exxon-Mobil and other "Big Oil" corporations they are barely considered successful when you look at the bottom line of other Fortune 500 companies.

    But hey that's ok...ignore the hard truth that's been posted here about why gas prices are so high...ignore the fact that the Federal Government makes DOUBLE what any oil company does off a gallon of gasoline.

    Stick tho the stuff you can spout that doesn't require any serious or deep thought.

    And for those of you that despise eeeeeevil oil companies...where the fuck were you when the price of a barrel of oil was BELOW $10? When natural gas dropped BELOW $2 Mcf?

    When there was a march on Austin demanding that the Gov go to D.C. and do something to save the industry?

    Oh yeah...y'all didn't GIVE A RATS ASS. Doesn't matter what's happening to "Big Oil" when gas is $1 a gallon.

    You don't stop to think why all those oil companies merged as long as it costs you $20 to fill up your truck.

    Profit margins and earnings? Pfft...who cares gas is cheap!

    Who needs to worry about draconian environmental regulations being snuck in and the fact there are only 5 gasoline refineries IN THE ENTIRE USA and they're working at 110-115% of capacity.

    Never mind that the taxes alone on a gallon of gas contribute more to the high price than anything the oil company does.

    As long as I can fill up my Explorer for $30 I give a DAMN.

    But the moment gas prices start to rise and people start to feel a pinch in the wallet...

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