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  1. #11  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    I'm not saying the Federal Reserve doesn't need reform, but getting rid of it entirely is just stupid and would cause HUGE financial problems all over the world not just here
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    I'm not saying the Federal Reserve doesn't need reform, but getting rid of it entirely is just stupid and would cause HUGE financial problems all over the world not just here
    I disagree. During the period between the dismantling of the Second Bank of the United States, and the opening of the Federal Reserve system, overall US real economic growth was substantially higher (about 4 - 4.5% per year) and the value of the US Dollar substantially better-maintained (approximately a 100% increase in purchasing power during the Gold-Standard 19th Century, vs a 97% decrease in purchasing power during the Central-Banking 20th Century), than under the subsequent Federal Reserve System.

    In other words, the country as a whole was getting richer, faster, AND all the Dollars in everyone's Savings Accounts were gaining value (very, very, slowly, but that's better than the constant Inflation we have today).

    Now, I am not going to argue with you as to whether or not the dissolution of the Federal Reserve would cause a short-term Depression. Not because I think you are wrong (the truth is, neither one of us has a perfectly-clear economic Crystal Ball; but, in the short term, I think it's possible that you're correct), but rather because I think you're arguing for a bad long-term trade-off. For me, the question is, "Would I be willing to suffer a short-term Depression in order to return to 100 years of higher economic growth and greater purchasing power?" For me, the answer to that question is (perhaps painfully, at first) "Yes. Yes indeed".

    That being said, I would agree with you that for immediate POLITICAL effect (i.e., getting voters to realize the True Cost of Government, and Vote on it), North's ideas about ending withholding and moving Tax Day to early November are probably more immediately powerful.
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  3. #13  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrthodoxPresbyterian View Post
    I disagree. During the period between the dismantling of the Second Bank of the United States, and the opening of the Federal Reserve system, overall US real economic growth was substantially higher (about 4 - 4.5% per year) and the value of the US Dollar substantially better-maintained (approximately a 100% increase in purchasing power during the Gold-Standard 19th Century, vs a 97% decrease in purchasing power during the Central-Banking 20th Century), than under the subsequent Federal Reserve System.

    In other words, the country as a whole was getting richer, faster, AND all the Dollars in everyone's Savings Accounts were gaining value (very, very, slowly, but that's better than the constant Inflation we have today).

    Now, I am not going to argue with you as to whether or not the dissolution of the Federal Reserve would cause a short-term Depression. Not because I think you are wrong (the truth is, neither one of us has a perfectly-clear economic Crystal Ball; but, in the short term, I think it's possible that you're correct), but rather because I think you're arguing for a bad long-term trade-off. For me, the question is, "Would I be willing to suffer a short-term Depression in order to return to 100 years of higher economic growth and greater purchasing power?" For me, the answer to that question is (perhaps painfully, at first) "Yes. Yes indeed".

    That being said, I would agree with you that for immediate POLITICAL effect (i.e., getting voters to realize the True Cost of Government, and Vote on it), North's ideas about ending withholding and moving Tax Day to early November are probably more immediately powerful.
    We've gone on about how the Gold Standard (which we know you are an advocate for) will not work anymore. I have to leave for school right now, but I'll get a little more on it later
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  4. #14  
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    I'm not saying the Federal Reserve doesn't need reform, but getting rid of it entirely is just stupid and would cause HUGE financial problems all over the world not just here
    Yeah, we sure don't have those with it, do we?
    "Our president delivered his State of the Union message to Congress. That is one of the things his contract calls for -- to tell congress the condition of the country. This message, as I say, is to Congress. The rest of the people know the condition of the country, for they live in it, but Congress has no idea what is going on in America, so the president has to tell 'em." ~ Will Rogers
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    We've gone on about how the Gold Standard (which we know you are an advocate for) will not work anymore. I have to leave for school right now, but I'll get a little more on it later
    Incidentally, I am not an advocate of the Gold Standard, or of any Government-imposed "standard", but rather of Free Market Money (i.e., whatever the Free Market decides is "money": historically, consumers have preferred Gold or Silver, and sometimes Copper, but I'm not married to any of them -- it's whatever the Free Market decides, for me).

    However, I do believe that the Gold Standard, if not "the best" monetary system, is certainly preferable to Fiat Money (which is the truly "unworkable" Monetary System, as demonstrated by the fact that EVERY SINGLE Fiat Money ever issued, save for those presently in operation, have always gone to Zero Value -- and at the rate that our world's current Fiat Monies are declining in value, we may reasonably expect them to go to Zero within our lifetimes, also. Gold and Silver, you may be certain, will still retain substantial value).
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  6. #16  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    I'll go with what ever the Antichrist decides.
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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  7. #17  
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrthodoxPresbyterian View Post
    Incidentally, I am not an advocate of the Gold Standard, or of any Government-imposed "standard", but rather of Free Market Money (i.e., whatever the Free Market decides is "money": historically, consumers have preferred Gold or Silver, and sometimes Copper, but I'm not married to any of them -- it's whatever the Free Market decides, for me).

    However, I do believe that the Gold Standard, if not "the best" monetary system, is certainly preferable to Fiat Money (which is the truly "unworkable" Monetary System, as demonstrated by the fact that EVERY SINGLE Fiat Money ever issued, save for those presently in operation, have always gone to Zero Value -- and at the rate that our world's current Fiat Monies are declining in value, we may reasonably expect them to go to Zero within our lifetimes, also. Gold and Silver, you may be certain, will still retain substantial value).
    I agree with you to a certain point, but it could be argued that any currency that you cannot eat or use in a practical manner to survive is a fiat currency at the end of the day. I have no doubt that many people have traded a fortune in gold for a crust of bread.
    "Our president delivered his State of the Union message to Congress. That is one of the things his contract calls for -- to tell congress the condition of the country. This message, as I say, is to Congress. The rest of the people know the condition of the country, for they live in it, but Congress has no idea what is going on in America, so the president has to tell 'em." ~ Will Rogers
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articulate_Ape View Post
    I agree with you to a certain point, but it could be argued that any currency that you cannot eat or use in a practical manner to survive is a fiat currency at the end of the day. I have no doubt that many people have traded a fortune in gold for a crust of bread.
    It's possible; but what's far more statistically probable, throughout history, is that even in a condition of MASS, ABJECT STARVATION (as in present-day Zimbabwe), people are willing to trade bushels of Bread for a few grams of Gold (as in present-day Zimbabwe). See HERE (http://armannd.com/zimbabwe-gold-for-bread.html/).

    The reason, of course, being that while an excess of Bread may well spoil on the morrow, an excess of Gold can be traded as easily for Bread tomorrow, as it can today. Sometimes Durability of Value has a Value all its own, even if it's an "intangible" value. (And "Durability of Value" is one virtue in which the Fiat Dollar is lacking -- amongst many other economic virtues in which Fiat Money is intrinsically lacking).
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    I'll go with what ever the Antichrist decides.
    Great. Now I'm going to have to present an essay on Caesar Nero's monetary policy. Thanks a lot, RockN!!! :mad:
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  10. #20  
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    (Full Article HERE)
    What our local cultist is scared to post is the actual link to this silly article which is at...*gasp* www.lewrockwell.com
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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