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  1. #101  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    Stop projecting. You don't understand what and how a mutation works...
    I do, actually.

    very rarely a mutation might benefit the organism.
    This is true, but that's all that it takes. Most of the time mutations cause problems in the production of protein synthesis which negatively affects the organism, but not always.

    When mutations are not beneficial, the organism is more likely to die, and that mutated gene dies with the organism.

    When a mutation is beneficial, which is more rare, the organism is more likely to survive and reproduce, which produces copies of that mutated gene, which can then spread through the gene pool.

    So even though most mutations are harmful, the process of natural selection causes beneficial mutations to propagate and become more common.


    Some bacteria can lose information for a controlling gene and become resistant to certain antibiotics but mutations do not create..they corrupt. If you can't grasp that simple truth, there is no use continuing this discussion with you.
    This is not true, it's not a simple truth. Mutations are not all deleterious. There are multiple kinds of mutations, some mutations involve pieces of the DNA strand not being copied, these are deleterious because nucleotide bases are "lost", causing effectively a shorter gene. Other mutations, however, can simply change existing genes by swapping nucleotides, interposing nucleotide strings into other areas, or even duplicating nucleotides which effectively lengthens the DNA strand.

    Different strings of nucleotide bases cause different amino acids and subsequently different proteins to be synthesized, so if a gene has pieces that are moved around or flipped around, then entirely different proteins are produced, which results in changes in the phenotype (or physical structure of the creature). Changes are what occur, not "corruptions", just differences.

    When strings of nucleotides are copied more than they should be, you end up with entirely new segments of genes that can effectively "add information" to the DNA strand.

    So what is the problem, what is not possible here?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

    * A neutral mutation has no harmful or beneficial effect on the organism. Such mutations occur at a steady rate, forming the basis for the molecular clock.
    * A deleterious mutation has a negative effect on the phenotype, and thus decreases the fitness of the organism.
    * An advantageous mutation has a positive effect on the phenotype, and thus increases the fitness of the organism.
    * A nearly neutral mutation is a mutation that may be slightly deleterious or advantageous, although most nearly neutral mutations are slightly deleterious.

    This myth that mutations can only "delete" information is totally absurd, which is obvious with just a little logic.

    Take any organism, take any gene in it's DNA strand, zoom in and change a single A nucleotide (Adenine) to a G nucleotide (Guanine). This is a simple Point Mutation. If you believe that this necessarily results in a "loss" of information, then what happens if, in the next generation, on that same DNA location, that G gets swapped with an A? This is called a Reverse Mutation, and it is common.

    If going from the original A to a G is a "loss of information" then the equally possible swap from G to A must necessarily be a "gain of information".

    Can you explain any reason why this is not so?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  2. #102  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    This works in many ways.

    If a mutation occurs which "deletes" a nucleotide from a DNA strand, is that a loss of information?

    If so, what is it when a mutation inserts a nucleotide into a DNA strand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  3. #103  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    This works in many ways.

    If a mutation occurs which "deletes" a nucleotide from a DNA strand, is that a loss of information?

    If so, what is it when a mutation inserts a nucleotide into a DNA strand?
    either way it is 99.9999999999999% of the time a bad thing
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  4. #104  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    either way it is 99.9999999999999% of the time a bad thing
    Did you know that 99.9999999999999% of statistics are made up on the spot?
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  5. #105  
    Senior Member jnkbortka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Did you know that 99.9999999999999% of statistics are made up on the spot?
    If you want to see my political views, check out my profile. i have them on my wall because there wasn't enough room in the info section.
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  6. #106  
    Senior Member jnkbortka's Avatar
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    according to wikipedia it's 70% are harmful and the others are neutral or weakly beneficial
    If you want to see my political views, check out my profile. i have them on my wall because there wasn't enough room in the info section.
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  7. #107  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Did you know that 99.9999999999999% of statistics are made up on the spot?
    yeah, probably :p
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  8. #108  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnkbortka View Post
    according to wikipedia it's 70% are harmful and the others are neutral or weakly beneficial
    so bad and/or doesn't do anything worth while
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  9. #109  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    It's not that it doesn't do anything worthwile, it's just that the changes are small. Mutations are not like they show on XMEN, they are tiny changes, that, when accompanied by forces such as natural selection and genetic drift, can alter the gene pool of a population.

    Even if only 10% are beneficial, that's plenty with natural selection to change a species.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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