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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post



    Just wikipedia it. Taiwan (Chinese Taipei to the Chinese) is considered by the Chinese as rightfully being a part of China, and currently a state in rebellion.
    That's simplistic. Lots of islands are "in dispute" and have been for a very long time for many different nations. His accusation was a much broader one than Taiwan, and while we do enjoy some rather high quality manufactures from Taiwan, in the greater scheme of things it simply doesn't matter. My point, beyond your simplistic take on it, was that China's history is not one of aggression outside long established borders. Every now and then, they have a dust up with a neighbor, like European countries haven't?

    If China wanted to steam roll a neighbor, they wouldn't need an aircraft carrier to do it.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    :eek::eek:
    seriously? dude, the ONLY thing keeping the Chinese from taking Taiwan now is the US fleet that protects it. Just to keep the Chinese placated we don't recognize them as a sovereign country. (I think only Israel and one other do).
    On top of that, it would be a "Bad Thing(TM)" for Taiwan to fall back into Chinese hands because America does a whole lot of manufacturing business with them. If it did fall back into Chinese hands we'd have to go through the Chinese to get to the manufacturing of Taiwan, and American interests in Taiwan would suddenly become the property of the People's Republic of China.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    :eek::eek:




    seriously? dude, the ONLY thing keeping the Chinese from taking Taiwan now is the US fleet that protects it. Just to keep the Chinese placated we don't recognize them as a sovereign country. (I think only Israel and one other do).

    Face palm yourself. If China wanted to take Taiwan, we couldn't stop them. They could do it in row boats.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Face palm yourself. If China wanted to take Taiwan, we couldn't stop them. They could do it in row boats.
    Nova... just stop now. Please. This is one of those things you don't know what your talking about.

    Mainly, we have an agreement with Taiwan to go to war with China if they did try to invade. Then there is Taiwans military ability to stop a Chinese invasion. The Chinese AF would not be able to establish dominance, and Taiwans Navy would be able to hold off China's and resist troop landings.

    At best, China has the ability to level Taiwan with it's missiles, but I doubt they want to do that. Wouldn't be worth much to them then.
    Last edited by djones520; 08-09-2011 at 10:26 PM.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Nova... just stop now. Please. This is one of those things you don't know what your talking about.

    Mainly, we have an agreement with Taiwan to go to war with China if they did try to invade. Then there is Taiwans military ability to stop a Chinese invasion.

    At best, China has the ability to level Taiwan with it's missiles, but I doubt they want to do that. Wouldn't be worth much to them then.
    probably not, their manufacturing base is probably far and away more efficient and higher quality that the mainland will ever be. Taiwan is what Hong Kong use to before it went back to the Chinese
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    probably not, their manufacturing base is probably far and away more efficient and higher quality that the mainland will ever be. Taiwan is what Hong Kong use to before it went back to the Chinese
    Exactly. China can destroy Taiwan, but they'd lose what they wanted it for by doing so. A ground invasion is not feasable. The Taiwanese AF is much more modern then the PLAAF, and their navy is built solely for the purpose of defending from a Chinese invasion. China would never be able to land ground forces in the necessary numbers to overcome the Taiwanese Army.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Nova... just stop now. Please. This is one of those things you don't know what your talking about.

    Mainly, we have an agreement with Taiwan to go to war with China if they did try to invade. Then there is Taiwans military ability to stop a Chinese invasion. The Chinese AF would not be able to establish dominance, and Taiwans Navy would be able to hold off China's and resist troop landings.

    At best, China has the ability to level Taiwan with it's missiles, but I doubt they want to do that. Wouldn't be worth much to them then.
    So far everyone disagreeing with me seems to be thinking about an old fashioned military taking of Taiwan. How would that make sense for China? Taiwan would be destroyed. The US and China would be official enemies for the first time in history, and who knows who else would try to take advantage of the situation? It's a European way of thinking, and I think it's way off.

    Imagine hundreds of thousands of "refugees", pregnant women, families, old people, all civilian in wave after wave "escaping" from China, or with a really good PR firm and some basic and dishonest groundwork "returning to Formosa". Taiwan has 23 million people. China has 1.3 billion. Ten percent of Mexico's population is in the US illegally. Ten percent of 1.3 billion is 130 million people. It's the scale.

    And who is going to fire on families in rowboats with ten horsepower engines and two days worth of food and fuel?

    Give the Chinese some credit. They aren't stupid.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member malloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    That's simplistic. Lots of islands are "in dispute" and have been for a very long time for many different nations. His accusation was a much broader one than Taiwan, and while we do enjoy some rather high quality manufactures from Taiwan, in the greater scheme of things it simply doesn't matter. My point, beyond your simplistic take on it, was that China's history is not one of aggression outside long established borders. Every now and then, they have a dust up with a neighbor, like European countries haven't?

    If China wanted to steam roll a neighbor, they wouldn't need an aircraft carrier to do it.
    China believes that Taiwan is well within China's borders, that's the point. Seriously, just go read up on it, as well as the fallout scenarios. It's not something the USA really needs to get into right now. Just go read up on it.
    "In England a king hath little more to do than to make war and give away places; which in plain terms, is to impoverish the nation and set it together by the ears. A pretty business indeed for a man to be allowed eight hundred thousand sterling a year for, and worshipped into the bargain! Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
    —Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    At best, China has the ability to level Taiwan with it's missiles, but I doubt they want to do that. Wouldn't be worth much to them then.
    Exactly
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by malloc View Post
    China believes that Taiwan is well within China's borders, that's the point. Seriously, just go read up on it, as well as the fallout scenarios. It's not something the USA really needs to get into right now. Just go read up on it.
    See post 17, and think. Just go think.
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